I've seen a lot of great info posted here concerning various finishes. The first two flyrods I built were finished with Flexcoat and I achieved excellent results. I'm hearing good things about the new U40 LS Supreme and am wondering what the pro's and con's are for this new finish when compared to Flexcoat. Lastly, is the LS Supreme a solvent-based system like the Flexcoat, or is it water-based? I'm always willing to try something new.

Thank you!
Mike

Mike
Flexcoat is not a solvent based system. It is a 100% solids epoxy polymer. LS Supreme is a similar system -- It is a 100% epoxy. It has more pot life than the flexcoat, and is considerably clearer. None of the two part rod finishes on the market are solvent based--- an exception to that would be the Clemens Crystal Coat. which is not a true thread finish.

Ralph O'Quinn
U-40 finishes

I like Flex Coat as it is easy to use and gives good results. My results with my first kit of LS Supreme are giving me reason to change finishes,maybe. The Supreme has a l - o - n - g working time. I get about 45 or 50 minutes out of it and I work kind of slow so this is a plus. It seems to be more clear than Flex Coat and has not yellowed, yet. About the only thing I don't like is the necessity of having to put on two applications to get the depth I desire. But it gives such good results I may just get over that.

Why not use Supreme as a base coat, and Flex Coat (or whatever hi-build you prefer) over that? I've done that on the past 2 saltwater rods I built.

Ralph - It hasn't happened to me yet, but trying to prevent a possible disaster in the future - is it possible to damage/burn the Supreme by flaming the second coat of a high-build? I've done it twice without any problems, but am I possible asking for trouble in the future??

Thanks, Billy

I've gone strictly to LS Supreme and my reasoning might sound dumb to some but I think more people should feel the same.

I think both products are excellent. I probably have used twice as much Flexcoat as U40. I like being able to apply a little heat when the bubbles get going. Of course, no can do with LS Supreme.

However, I am totally dedicated to LS Supreme if for no other reason than Mr. O'Q is there for us when we need him. He is a fountain of useful information. If you have a serious question you need only post it and it won't be long before Mr. O'Q comes to the rescue. He has been totally supportive of all Guild, etc. efforts.

.One hand washes the other and Mr. O'Q has washed enough hands to earn our support.

That's my $.02/

Mr. Seiders of Flex Coat donates his time to putting on many rod building classes. He is a first class fellow and I hope your post is promptly edited. That is a very poor thing to say about one of the most helpful people in this industry.

I'm on my 4th rod at this time and used Flex-coat on the first three with good results-- even working slowly! For no other reason than to try something different, I'm using LS Supreme on a 5pc, Winston blank at this time. Although it does dry clearer than the Flex-coat, I find it much harder to level. Maybe it's my technique (knitting needle application). I also like being able to clear bubbles with heat or by blowing on the epoxy through a straw which can"t be done with the LS. As a side note, I do like the U-40 Color Lock as it seems to penetrate the raps better than the Flex-coat CP. For what it's worth from a beginner.

I dont know what the problem is with putting more than two coates of LS SUPREME on a rod considering you are rod builders hear. Why try to dump it all on the first time when you can take it a bit slower and put two or three coats on a rod and have a much better looking finish. I build hundreds of rods every year and i can tell you now all my rods get two aeven three coats of finish and yes i have started using the best finish yet LS SUPREME. If we as rod builders are to start crying because it takes more than one coat then maybe you should get out of the trade we never use to have products like this and now we do it seems to me alott of rod builders are complaining it wont go on in one coat. ""may i add dont change the stuff O.K!!!

Stuart mackenzie
Precision Rods

I don't think anyone is making a big deal out of using more than one application. But any of us who have gotten used to getting the job done with just one do have to make some adjustments. This is particularly true when you are heavily involved in repair work and need to get the job done quickly. When I was still involved in the repair business I often had to finish as many as 100 rods per week. Most of these needed only only 1 or 2 guides coated. It would not have been feasible to keep the rods in the racks long enough for two applications. They had to be finished and done within a few hours.

The LS Supreme is what I am using now on my own rods. I believe it offers some advantages that are just too good to pass up. But it did require me to adjust my finishing technique, slightly. Nearly all the various epoxy finishing systems on the market today have their up and down sides. And nearly all require slightly different techniques in order to achieve good results. The trick for the rod builder is to find the finish that offers the qualities that he or she prefers, and then be willing to adjust personal finishing technique so as to be able to get the optimum results from it.

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I've experienced something last week with the LS Supreme that I never heard anything about before or experienced, and thought I'd pass along what I've learned. It does not self level like flex coat when you apply heat. (I never apply heat to LS Supreme) A customer pointed this out to me. I could not see the little smooth humps in the finish on the butt wrap (inconsintent thickness) (I did not have this problem on the guides, only on the butt wrap) I put the first coat on and let it turn for 12 hours. It penetrated the threads very well and put the second coat on for the final smooth finish. All went well . After checking the finish the next day, it looked great. no problems. When I delivered the rod 2 days later, the customer also was very pleased, however, he brought the rod back the next day and pointed the problem out to me. He placed the edge of a piece of paper on the butt wrap and you could see the slight humps in the finish. I took the rod back and ready to place a third coat, but I'm worried now about the finish, I'm not sure I'm going to get the whole wrap coated with a "level coat" and was thinking about roughing it up and placing a final coat of flex coat and apply the heat. Can anyone relate to my problem. Does it sound like I screwed something up along the way. Any recommendations? Again I've never experienced this problem with flex coat and some good-old-fashion heat. I applied the finish using a brush like I've always did. The humps seem to be spiraled which is most likely from me running the brush slowly down the finish to ensure a good coating, It seems the spirals created from that stayed and didn't self level Also, due to the design of the wrap, I can't get a good light reflection test of the finish that usually reveals all imperfections quickly. I assumed the finish would be level.

U40 are superior products and especially nice is the Supreme.
Having said that, I also probably won't abandon Flex Coat as I like the leveling properties and is good for quicker repair work as Tom pointed out. I think as rodbuilders we often have to keep an open mind about a products particular usage. There will probably never be a one shot silver bullet epoxy product for everything.

Depending on the type of rod, size of rod, and of course your choice of brand loyalty will determine which you will prefer to use. There are some differences that rodbuilders will pick up on when and if, using both.

I like the clear and durable qualities of LS Supreme and don't hesitate using 2 or even 3 coats if necessary. The thing about leveling is that you must have a level surface for your rods to turn with at the beginning. I find the LS Supreme will show your better side of quality thread wraps. Flex Coat may 'hide' a little better and is nicely flexible as the name somewhat implies.

Mr. Seiders and Mr. O'Quinn both have exceptional product for the rodbuilder. We thank you for your ongoing research and product development efforts and help for the rodbuilders.

Rich

Dwayne,

All these finishes, including the LS Supreme, self level. You can prove it to yourself - just pour some Supreme out on a clean, flat countertop and watch watch happens - it levels itself perfectly! (Don't do this on your wife's kitchen countertop and tell her I told you to do it!)

However, the LS Supreme will not support itself level when used in heavier applications such as is often the norm with thicker finishes like Flex Coat. That's the reason for multiple applications.

For now about all you can do is to make sure your rod is level, put on only as much finish as will support itself level on the wraps, and use as many applications as needed to achieve the desired depth. Most times this will be 2 or 3. And yes, brushing lengthwise helps to a great degree. I also continue to use a brush and now that I have some experience with it, can get a perfectly level finish with the LS Supreme. Just took some practice.

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As Tom K mentioned repairs I'll throw in my two cents worth,I use Flex coat for repairs and the Supreme for custom work,to Dwane the problem even occurs with flex coat sometimes it will be even more apparent since it is a heavier build finish,generally a second or 3rd application will solve the problem.

Gentlemen: I have found a cure for the problem I have had with Supreme,and that is self leveling,leading to bumps and lumps in the finish after it has set up. I have always used a 8 r.p.m. dryer and it works fine with Flex Coat. When I use U-40 LS or LS Supreme, or any lite formula I spin the blank at 60 - 80 R.P.M. and it self levels great. It even works wonders when trying to repair defects and blemishes I had from turning too slow.

That is an idea worth a try! Where would you get such a fast spinning drying motor though? I not familar with anything that turns faster than about 18rpm's in a continuous operating motor. Or do you spin it fast while you are applying it and then put it on your slow motor for set-up?

Russel: actually I just turn it by hand when applying the finish. When the application is complete I set it up in my rod wrapper which is foot pedal powered and has an in line rheostat that I can use to set it to any speed I want it to run.Once it is set to 60-80 R.P.M. I can just walk away from it for as long as I want to. Tom

Tom, Sully, and to all that take the time to provide assistance. Your help is invaluable. Thanks for being here.

I've been using flex coat in both light and high build for quite a few years now and I can't see any reason to change. I'm sure the U40 is a good product, but flex coat does what I need it to do and so far I've not had a single complaint from hundreds of customers. If it ain't broke, why bother trying to fix it? I do use U40 Cork Seal and it's hands down the best thing I've found for that job. It's the only sealer I've found that actually works and does not alter the feel of the cork.