This is really frustrating. I built a rod this summer, using Supreme as an initial coat with Classic Coat over it. I used this rod quite a few times, and the guide feet did have some small cracking on teh tip section. I went out with this rod again twice in teh past week, and it was realllllly cold - now all the epoxy on the gide feet have cracked, some pretty bad.

I think part of my problem is guide foot prep. I am not tapering the feet enough - it is flat at the, but I think I should be tapering more of the guide - say past teh half way point on the foot.

I am not putting too much epoxy on my rods - this rod was finished in a rush so I can fish it and actually could've used one more coat of epoxy.

Does anyone have a method or some (more) tips on how they prevent guide foot cracking completely? Or will I just have to get used to it?

Billy

I have heard that sometimes using color preserver can lead to cracking. If this is the case using an NCP thread with only Flex Coat over it should help--FlyDoctor

Hey Billy
I know a number of custom builders who have kind of shrugged that question off as though it might be something they learned to live with to a certain degree on some projects.
I build fly rods for saltwater in the heavier weights, 8 thru 12, and in the beginning had some cracking problems.
Let's leave aside for a minute the choice of finish or combination of finishes, guide choice and guide foot prep, etc. and assume we got the bugs out of that, the one thing that has cured the problem for me is to use very thin coats of finish, removing all excess for each application, allow adequate curing time between, and applying 3 or more often 4 coats per wrap. It's slow and I'm sure there are builders who can do it in a couple of coats and I envy that skill, but the layering of coats of finish for me seems to build a lamination, so to speak, that does stand up to resist the stress cracking. My .02 but I'd sure be interested in a speedier process as well.

Billy,
You should not use Crystal Coat over any other finish. You can
use it as a base coat, then use the LS Supreme or Flex Coat over
the Crystal Coat. That may be why they are cracking. This was
in Clemens Book.
Sanford Hochman

Billy
First you put on Supreme which is a very flexible epoxy, and purposely made that way. Then for some strange unknown reason you put over the top of it a very hard relatively brittle epoxy. The combination is guaranteed to give you problems. If you are going to use Supreme -- then use Supreme. If you are going to use Classic-- then use Classic. Why in heavens name did you mix them? Next time put all Supreme on one guide foot, and all Classic on the adjoining one, then come back and tell us which one cracks at the guide foot in cold weather.
Ralph

Billy, just my humble opinion here, but I think that cracking at the tip of the guide feet has more to do with the guide frame being stronger than the blank in being able to resist flexing. The stronger the frame the more that it wants to stay in one plane. The blank flexes to the point that the guide doesn't want to flex and the weakest point in the system is the tip of the foot.

A guide that flexed at the same contour of the blank would be less likely to crack. I have seen less cracking on single foot guides than on double foot. Maybe this is because there is less distance of the foot and the flex of the blank doesn't effect it as much as with the longer distance a double foot guide would have to flex.

If the guide frame would flex at the same rate as the blank, I imagine most cracking problems would go away.

This may help save you some work. Try and scuff the wrap finish with scotch brite pad (gray) then wipe it of with aceton. Now apply a thine coat of surpreme thise may cure your problem
Good luck Bob

Mike is dead on here. Many manfucturers have tried to develop guide designs that allow a bit more flex. Top-hinge guides that put the point of leverage further up on top of the guide, thinner guide feet, etc., but none of them seem to flex as easy as the blank to which they are attached.

One of the most important things you can do is to thin the guide foot as much a possible. I am still of the opinion that most guides are greatly overbuilt for the job they have to do (fishing) and are instead built for the abuse they are expected to take (from the fisherman). If you recall the old SHG style guides, which were very stiff but which had very thin feet, they did not crack the wraps nearly as bad as the later single piece frames which did crack the wraps almost automatically. The foot needs to flex.

Perhaps one day we will have guides made of the same material as the nylon type reel seats and someone can figure out a way to get a ceramic insert to stay in there. Then the cracking problem may be solved once and for all.

........................

Thanks for the all the replies. Thinning the guide foot makes sense, but I wasn't too sure if I would be weakening the guide by tapering it too much.

Has anyone tried to flex the rod while the epoxy is curing..but not hard yet? This may make the epoxy more flexible and may prevent cracking? Forgot who gave me that idea.

Billy,

I have tried that in an ill-fated attempt the "stretch" the epoxy. Didn't work. The only thing I haven't tried would be to flex the rod and keep it in that flexed position until the finish is fully cured and then release it.

What would be the ideal solution, would be to have a guide featuring nylon feet and lower legs, molded around a guide upper consisting of metal upper legs and ring support. The problem with all nylon guides with ceramic rings is that it is hard to keep a rigid ceramic ring in a guide frame with a high degree of flex. This problem could be overcome but it will require an investment in R&D and product. Such guides would probably cost more than what we have now, and what we have now works pretty well.

Just taper your feet to a shallow angle and remove some of the extra thickness from the top of the foot. You should be able to tell when enough is enough.

....................................

If you don't mind a little different look try Perma Gloss by U-40. The stuff is tough as nails and I haven't noticed any guide foot cracking on rods that are 3+ years old.

Jim

Hey, I've got a solution to your problem of inflexable guides/flexible tip cracking the epoxy. (This is assuming other conditions are correct, guide feet prepped, proper wrapping technique.) And it applies to all rods 40# and under.

Use single foot guides. Better, use titanium framed single foot guides.

Conventional rod? Spiral it with dbl footed one then switch to single footed one.

Another guide that has a bit more flex is the Fuji LowRider. It's looong and flexable.

The idea of R & D into developing guides with graphite or nylon frames.....hmmm. Could be revolutionary and a good thought. On the other hand is the practical nature of why the material that are used now will last a long time and also as Tom mentioned designed also for fishing AND abuse to some degree. Perhaps also some R & D could go into more ideas about the blank materials that better accept metal foot guides. Perhaps development of better alloyed materials that have more give, as is seen in some guides presently. Most of what is said here is great information and also I would not discount Ralph's advice about preventing the mixing of a flexible finish over a brittle one.
Also, staying within the matching of as small of guides that will perform the function for the blank and line being used will go a long ways in helping the cracking situation. Where there is more flex, try using approrpiate ground and beveled guides and yet retain the strength desired, but also use of single foot guides which one can use more often than not.

In addition, I wouldn't think that the use of C.P., in itself would be the culprit. Can't see why that would cause cracking.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods

This is only my experience, but single foot guides seem to crack the wraps worse than anything else I have used. The foot is longer than either of the feet on a similar size double foot guide and that is just more length that isn't going to flex like the blank does. In fact, that's the only drawback I see to using single foot guides.