Hey everyone hope all is well !

Again thank you all for your wisdom and help!

Im finally starting the 8'9"ft 4 wt . as mentioned before ive only used double foot snake guides on the four fly rods that I built so far .

I had purchased a set of pac bay TICH double ft guides but, after a reply From Tom Kirkman and reading many posts on several boards on the advantages of modern single foot ceramic guides on fly rods I am now going to break the law and ween myself of the fobia of " its a fly rod it has to be traditional " after all this is a modern material rod and im out to fish with it , not use it for a wall hanging . I guess ill save the traditional look for cane rods (I refurbished one already Lots of fun!!).

this brings me to my problem!

I dont have a clue what guides to use let alone what size or spacing!

Are the Fuji or whatever guides the same size as are wire guides? the blank im using is 8'9" 3pc 4wt I would like to use two strippers.

Also on this type of single foot guide is a locking wrap needed or is that only for larger frame spin type guides but if so what type of locking wrap?.

I very much look forward to your GUIDEANCE as Im venturing into unfamiliar territory and looking over my shoulder for the dreaded FRP
(Fly Rod Police) Many thanks!!! I would like to order guides asap so any help will be very welcome !!!

Happy wrapping "John"

I am going to toss out something to use as a starting point. I hope you will take the time to test it for yourself and tweak it if need be. I'd go with something like: 12 - 10 - 8 - 6 and 6's on out to the top. I would think that a total of 9 guides plus will be about right.

I use some sort of security wrap on all my single footed guides. Always have. It takes an extra couple of seconds at best and is easy to do. The Forhan style is the most secure, although a simple passing of 2 or 3 winds beyond the guide leg will prove sufficient in your case.

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Agree with Tom. I am in the process of building 2 9ft 4wt IMX 3piece rods. The guides I used are Fuji SIC in following sizes #12 (doublefoot stripper) then two #10 (first one 31/2" from stripper, then 1.2x the distance for the next two) an #8 and then 6 #6s the rest of the way out. total guides equaled 10 plus the tiptop. FYI, this was my first attempt at the "multiple collector guide" method and the performance results are beyond comparison to the traditional guide placement. This method gets the oscillation of the line out very quick and litterally shoots the line out of the reel. Amazing the difference.

Hey John-

For what it's worth, I think you are on the right track. I'll be very surprised if you don't LOVE your new rod with the single foot guides. While I understand why people do still use them, I never use snakes any more and never will unless somebody just has to have them. I have not had that happen in about two years. If you can put two identical rods in an angler's hands that are builit out with the two types of guides (snakes vs. single foots), the performance speaks for itself as long as you use an appropriate number of guides that are the 'right' size (pronounced as small as possible). I have yet to have somebody intentionally choose the rod that weighs more, shoots less line and feels slower/less alive. If you don't believe there's a difference you have to try it - thus endeth the stump speech. Sorry,

Since you asked, I will tell you what I might do but this is just a guideline and you should definitely tweak it to fit your specific rod. If it's an 8'9" #4 I would probably end up using 10 guides BUT I would definitely try 11 just to be sure that's too many and that 9 was too few. It sounds like it might be a Sage blank, in which case I have found a lot of them (and other faster-actioned blanks) respond really well to an 'extra' guide in the tip section a la the Don Morton progressive angle system. Eleven guides seems like a lot for a light rod that length, but if you keep them small (and the 6s are very light) it can really bring the rod to life in my personal opinion.

I really like both the Fuji SIC and Alconite New Concept Guide frame styels. The SICs are available in titanium frames or black or chrome stainless frames. The Alconites are available in black and chrome stainless as well. While there are definitely some advantages to SICs over Alconite (SIC is harder, conducts heat better, etc.), I think the differences are sort of marginally incremental and I'm not sure we are able to perceive the difference while fishing. To tell you the truth, I can't tell a difference when casting two rods with the guides taped on and have not personally seen a different in shooting length if the same size and number of guides are used. Again, this is my own personal experience and I recommend that you try it yourself to see what you think - that's the only way to be sure.

Since I can't see a discernable performance difference, I use SICs with titanium frames when I want maximum weight savings and/or salt corrosion resistance and Alconites on all others. In terms of sizes for a #4, I would personally go with a size 12 N-style Stripper, a size 8 U-style bridge guide, and then either a U-style 7 and 6js out to the tip or just the regular 6Js all the way out to the size six tip. So, for me it would be 12N-8U-7U-6Js out or 12N-8U-6Js out. I used to go 12N-10N-8J-7J but it just doesn't add any distance or performance so I just get down to the 6s more quickly and reduce the weight. In all honesty, you do NOT need the N-Style stripper - you could use a single foot - but to me it's still the right combination of form and function. I guess the FRP never quite leave you at peace...HA!

I would always recommend a locking/security wrap of some kind but I have never had a non-color preserved single foot pull out - ever. I really like the Forhan locking wrap (that guy's a genius) but I can't get it to finish out as nice as I'd like in terms of finish under the guide foot. Two or three wraps behind the guide foot as Tom said should suffice. I would also recommend that you do all your guide placement - static deflection, etc. - before you shape and polish your feet as it may decrease the chances of scratching the blank moving them around. I hope this has been helpful. Please feel free to contact me if I can answer any other questions. You'll have to let us know how the rod turns out.

Gentileman Thank you very much!!

I have a great starting point generated off a great web site .

ill order up some guides today goodbye wire snakes. and now on the run from the FRA.

Mucho thanks Happy wrapping "John"
NOTE
I wonder if I can change my favorite10' 6wt over to single ft guides without it looking cut up?? (my wife wont see much of me this winter HA HA)

John,
Just to add a couple ideas. If you like the look of the ticarb snake guides, which are nice too and if you want to go with single foot why not try the TiCh ring fly single foot guides with the titanium carbide frame. Very light, durable, and the silver finish ring looks sharp. These are very smooth for line flow and resistant to the elements.
I've been using these almost exclusively for a good looking and high performance custom rod. They also won't break the bank for cost.
If you want snake guides, or on a 'traditional' customer basis why not consider also the lite wire snake guides that also are in a Ticarb. finish. I also agree with the above to go smaller and lighter, but perhaps with an optimum number of 9 or 10 guides should do it.

Rich
Richard's Rod & Reel Service
(Rod Components and Supplies)