I don't usually use CP on my cane rods but a customer wants hunter green wraps with black tipping so I have been experimenting with color results. I tried Flex Coat CP, Gudebrod #811 and Verathane. I am using 00 silk and have applied multiple coats of each CP then dipped the wraps in Man-O-War Spar varnish. The Flex Coat CP seems like it is the only one giving me a consistent final color. But the Flex Coat CP does not look too nice under the varnish. My green silk stayed green throughout the entire test wrap but I wish I could get better results. I have tried using each of the CPs at full strength and thinned. I have never had this problem with nylon and I normally use translucent silk wraps on cane, but this one is got my frustrated. Any help or suggestions?

Golden Witch to the left has a recipe which works with U-40 Color Lock on silk. Web to Golden Witch, click <components>, select <finishes>, click <modern finish systems> and scroll down to Color Lock. Their recipe is next to the product description.

Jeff:

Are you using Varathane 900 (as opposed to the regular Varathane)? That's the one you want. This will darken the threads very slightlly, but it is the only "color preserver" that holds up 100% in the dip tube. I've had random failures with both Gudebrod 811 and Flexcoat, as well as clear lacquer. What I do is start with a shade that's a tad brighter than what I want for a final color and use Varathane 900. Or I roll the dice and use one of the others, but I usually end up with 1+ wraps getting blotchy and have to redo. The dip tube is the "acid test" for color preservers!

Are you saying you never had a dip tube failure with nylon, even with Flexcoat and Gudebrod?

--Rich

I agree, Varathane 900 is the only way to go when dipping.

I did try Varathane 900 and the hunter green silk turns too dark. I can barely tell the difference between it and the black tipping. I tested some other lighter shades of green in combination with the Varathane 900 but they didn't give me the hunter green results that this customer wants. I almost always make rods using my signature colors which consist of translucent antique gold with brandywine tipping. But this customer is a fellow lifetime member of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and I wanted to make the rod exactly how he wished. I have dipped tons of rods using both silk and nylon but I never have tried to use a CP before with spar. Heck I don't particularly like to use CP on graphite rods with epoxy finishes!

Jeff,

I do not know how this will react with silk, but i have been using quite a bit of future floor polish and have been getting good results. It is an acrylic finish. you might want to give it a shot.

Gregg

Actually that floor acrylic polish is the same thing as the acrylic Flex-coat cp. Just much,much less expensive.
Tom

Angler's Workshop has a color preserver made for silk. It's called Silk Color Rite, part #SCR1 or SCR4 depending on how many ounces you want.
Worked fine for me.
Good Wraps.

This is a tough one,

Ive experimented with most stuff and found silk to be Hit or miss at best.

varathane 900 has never let me down on Nylon but silk it does get mch darker than when used on nylon.

ON SILK
1) V900 darkens to much (very little color loss on Nylon)

2)gudbrod 811 is about 60% on silk I always have guides to re do (using epoxy)

3) the white acrylic CP full strength can look hazy and is also hit or miss on silk

4) future floor polish I experimented with and the results are OK and worth doing a serious test Looks like 2 coats are needed for epoxy. but spar is a different animal.

5) Ive used Gudbrod rod Varnish on Rayon and Rayon is touchy like silk and the wraps came out fine but they needed 2 coats and a whole day in between to harden. actually Im going to play with the gudebrod varnish some more.

5) Russ Gooding I believe applies as many as 5coats of CP . Russ uses the White stuff and does three coats thinned with DISTILLED water then he does 2 more coats full strength. lot of work!!

I love wrapping in silk but the CP issue has me moving back to nylon as Ive had too many guides to redo on my last bunch of projects no matter what I used for CP.

I feel the frustration
happy wraps "John"

If you really must use a CP in the dip tube that will not darken (that leaves out Varathane 900, but personally I love the stuff), I'd use Gudebrod 811. It has the best color retention of anything I've tried, including clear lacquer. Put on 3 coats, thinning the first 20-25% with high quality alcohol (the stuff used to thin shellac). (I know Tom K. says only 1 heavy full strength is needed, but Make sure you work it into the "tunnels" (old Clemens trick). Double the recommended drying time between coats and wait a minimum of 24 hours after the 3rd coat. Cross your fingers, and realize this is not 100%, but you may get lucky.

--Rich

Jeff,

You've received quite a bit of advice about what doesn't work, and what works okay. Want some suggestions about what WILL work? I've just finished a rod with Hunter Green 00 silks, tipped black. Rather than color preserving, I finished with Gudebrod 822 Rod Varnish -- not the 811 Color Preserver. It works like a charm and gives beautiful wraps. I'll be happy to shoot you some pic's if you'd like.

The rod was given to our local FFF club. They raffled the rod off at the Southern Council FFF Conclave, and did quite well. Any of the 700+ folks there can tell you how it looked.

Hope this helps,
Harry

Harry,

I knew you'd come through for me! I have a bottle of 822 but I never thought to use it. I'll try it out tomorrow. I was getting ready to go over to Denver Dave's because I have seen and cast some of his rods that have the green wraps so I wonder how he does his. Well thanks for the advice, and I would love to see those pictures.

Gudebrod 822 is an interior water-based varnish. My side-by-side tests on gold silk thread show that it will darken the thread slightly, expecially compared to Gudebrod 811, Flexcoat, and clear lacquer. But definitely not as much as Varathane 900. If it holds up in the dip tube, it might be the best alternative. I haven't tried it yet there, but I surely will now based on Harry's tests. I do have to disagree that it will hold the color or even lighten it (can't see how the addition of solids could actually lighten the color of thread.) But the slight darkening might be what you're looking for.

If you don;t have access to Gudebrod 822, basically the same stuff can be found in craft stores. FolkArt and Alenes are two that I've tried on plastic rods and they look/smell/work the same as the Gudebrod 822. I never thought of trying them in the dip tube though, but it makes sense that as a varnish, they'd hold up better than the other formulations.

--Rich

Rich,

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I intended to be. I only finished the wraps with the 822. The entire rod was then dipped in Last N Last Spar Varnish. Don't want anyone thinking I bought dozens of little bottles of 822 and poured all of them into a dip tube!

Harry

PS -- I'll shoot you some pictures of the rod, along with some pic's of the raw thread. You can make your own decisions about whether or not it "brightened".