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Guide Question
Posted by: Glenn Knepprath (---.as36001.com)
Date: July 03, 2018 10:08AM

How do you figure out where the first or the largest guide belongs from the reel seat and size of ring whether it is a spinning or casting rod I also know it depends on the reel being used I can find 3 or 4 different guide placements for any given rod length and everyone is at different length's from the reel seat I do load test my rods for guide placement before finishing so far I have not had any line slap or choking going on I also get the rod maker magazine's and thought there was something about this in one of them but I am having trouble finding it, Thank you!

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Re: Guide Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 03, 2018 10:10AM

On a spinning reel the diameter of the butt guide ring is dependent on many things - the size of the reel spool, the size and type line you're using, and the height of the butt guide frame. For a general starting place, try using a ring that is roughly 1/2 the outside diameter of the reel spool.

...........

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Re: Guide Question
Posted by: Glenn Knepprath (---.as36001.com)
Date: July 03, 2018 10:15AM

Thanks Tom,but how do I know how far to be away from the reel seats? is there like a general rule of the correct distance?

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Re: Guide Question
Posted by: Joe Vanfossen (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: July 03, 2018 12:05PM

Glenn,

Click on the Library button above. Toward the bottom of the list, you will find 2 very important articles: Static Guide Placement and New Guide Concept Primer.

For spinning reels: With the NGC Primer, you can modify the idea to use Tom's 27x method. With the 27x method, you will place the choke guide 27x the spool diameter from the spool face (in the middle of its oscillation). From there, you will start with a butt guide about 1/2 the diameter of the spool on a Y-type frame (20mm for 1000 size reel, 25-30 for 2000 - 4000 size reels), and place it so that the outside of the guide frame touches a line that runs from the spools shaft to the top of the choke guide. The distance is what it is. Then you will place 1 or 2 more guides between the butt guide and choker using the same rule to complete your reduction train. In order to place the guides between the choker and the tip, the Static placement article is very helpful.

Generally, you will be looking at a distance of 18" to 24" from the spool face to the butt guide on your freshwater spinning rod builds. Maybe a bit more on larger rods.

For casting reels: If you are building rods where a fore grip is not used, then use the static placement for guides starting from the tip and working back. Place all of the guides using the same criteria and the butt guide ends up where it ends up. If you are building rods where the fore grip is in use, then you need to be certain that you are using a guide that will keep the line off the user's hand under maximum load.

With modern low profile reels, there really isn't a need to use a ring size larger than the guide on your level wind. If you need to pass knots and leader connections, then you will have a reason to bump up the guide size. I use casting rods that have single foot 3mm or 4mm guides from butt to tip. In this configuration, the butt guide lands between 23" and 27" from the level wind. I also use rods that start with double foot 6mm guides followed by a 5mm single foot and then 3mm or 4mm single foot guides to the tip. Here my but guide lands between 21" and 24" from the level wind.

If you are using a round reel, then bumping up to an 8mm or 10mm double foot for extra height as a butt guide is not a bad idea (or to keep the line a little further from the blank to make it easier to reach when flipping).

When it comes to guide trains, there is no single solution, as it is a complicated system, but we are fortunate in that many solutions will work very well, virtually equally well. The primary concept involved in spinning rods is to bring the line from the reel to the rod along a straight line path. Then use another straight line path to take it to the tip. Modern techniques such as 27x, Fuji KR Concept, Amtak Microwave rely heavily on this idea. If you are using large diameter of stiff mono, look toward 27x. For smaller diameter limp mono, or braid, you can get the line to the rod quicker without adversely affecting performance. Look at KR placement (you can use guides with similar heights without committing to KR guides) or Microwave. With the Microwave, adhere to the measurements from the spool face for the placement of the first three guides from the reel face. The running guides can be placed using your preferred technique.

With casting rods, the line leaves the level wind more or less under control. You just need guides to keep it close to the blank and take it to the tip.

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Re: Guide Question
Posted by: Eugene Moore (---.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
Date: July 03, 2018 06:15PM

Glenn,
Measure the distance from the rod tip to the reel seat.
Multiply this distance by .29 .
This is the distance from the reel seat to the first guide.
Works in most cases except when using a very long fore grip.

Gene

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Re: Guide Question
Posted by: Glenn Knepprath (---.as36001.com)
Date: July 03, 2018 07:41PM

Thats what I was looking for Gene!! & I Thank all of you!!

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Re: Guide Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 03, 2018 09:45PM

Eugene Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glenn,
> Measure the distance from the rod tip to the reel
> seat.
> Multiply this distance by .29 .
> This is the distance from the reel seat to the
> first guide.
> Works in most cases except when using a very long
> fore grip.
>
> Gene

This approach will result in varying distances, even though you are using the same reel and line. Rod length is of no consequence in reel to butt guide distance. That is a matter of reel spool size and line type. For two rods of different lengths, but each using the same reel and line, the optimum distance from the reel to the butt guide will be identical. Rod length is not a factor.

......................

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