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Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
jon tobey
(---.cpe.metrocast.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 06:06PM
I finished a rod last week and brought it home to NH. I covered the inlay in Threadmaster 1. I hiked it in and fished it, then put it in the sock and tube, no issues when I put it away. This morning, all the wraps were milky white! This went away 99% today, but WTH? Anybody with experience/advice?
I guess it's back to epoxy for me. Can I epoxy over this stuff? Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Phil Erickson
(---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 06:29PM
The milkiness is caused by moisture. If it was put away damp this often happens. Heat from a hairdryer will usually clear it up. It can happen to most two part epoxies as well. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
jon tobey
(---.cpe.metrocast.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 06:32PM
So this is going to go away?
I really want to go away from epoxy, but I'm really disappointed in this stuff. It was terrible to apply. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Jay Dubay
(---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: July 01, 2018 07:49PM
The Concept is good but that's about it, I threw mine away, After doing a Sample wrap and Exposing it to the weather, It will clear up Like mentioned above. Just Not my cup of Tea! And yes it's to Hard to work with. Needs more RD in my opinion. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Matthew Pitrowski
(---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 09:30PM
you might want to take a pin and prick a hole near the guide tunnels and hit it with a hair dryer to make it evaporate out faster and then just dab the pinhole with a drop of TM and you will be OK
as for working with it you have to use a sponge to apply and the coats are thin so it takes several not just one or two like epoxy threadmaster1 works the same as perma gloss or luma seal so if you don't like TM1 you won't like PG or LS either as these products were developed for coating fly rods and raw blanks where you want a nice light thin finish with out the weight that comes with epoxy. The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !! Think out side the box when all else fails !!! Wi. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Norman Miller
(---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 11:11PM
No! Threadmaster 1 is quite different from PG or lumiseal, it is much more viscous and more difficult to apply. PG and LS are both organic solvent based, very thin, and are catalyzed by moisture in the air, so moisture makes them harder. I have observed for TreadMaster 1, If you wait too short a time between coats or apply too a heavy coat you get a rubbery finish that turns milky when in the presence of moisture. I you want to use ThreadMaster 1 apply thin coats and wait a couple of hours between coats. If done properly it does gives a decent finish. I still prefer an epoxy finish for thread wraps and PG as a clear coat for blanks.
Norm Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Matthew Pitrowski
(---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 11:30PM
gees NORM did you miss this part of my response
as for working with it you have to use a sponge to apply and the coats are thin so it takes several not just one or two like epoxy also explain how you apply heavy coat of PG or luma seal ? considering the MFG of all the above and TM1 recommend applying thin coats to achieve good results the TM1 is water based and the others are solvent based naturally they have a higher evaporation rate than a water based coating. a water based coating works differently because of the humidity in the ambient air it is applied and will take longer to cure. water has a low evaporation point at temps lower than 100 degrees. The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !! Think out side the box when all else fails !!! Wi. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Norman Miller
(---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 12:04AM
You did state that TM1 works the same as PG and LS, this is what I replied to. If I misunderstood this then I apologize. I did not mention anything about applying a heavy coat of PG, I apply very thin coats to the blank by wiping/squeegeeing it on using a saturated cosmetic sponge. I do agree with you that TM1 requires multiple thin coats, and I also added that one should give sufficient time between coats. Not waiting long enough for the TM1 to dry/cure between coats results in the same thing as applying too heavy of a coat. This heavy coat causes the improper drying/curing resulting in a rubbery finish that will turn milky.
Norm Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Phil Erickson
(---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 11:04AM
I too threw away my TM1. I found it had no benefits other then not having to mix two part, and all the shortcomings mentioned above. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
jon tobey
(---.cpe.metrocast.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 02:09PM
Super frustrated. I'm going to try to sand it down and maybe expoy over it. Thanks for all of the technical and moral support. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Jay Dubay
(---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: July 02, 2018 02:36PM
Matthew Paul Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > you might want to take a pin and prick a hole near > the guide tunnels and hit it with a hair dryer to > make it evaporate out faster and then just dab the > pinhole with a drop of TM and you will be OK > > as for working with it you have to use a sponge to > apply and the coats are thin so it takes several > not just one or two like epoxy > threadmaster1 works the same as perma gloss or > luma seal so if you don't like TM1 you won't like > PG or LS either as these products were developed > for coating fly rods and raw blanks where you > want a nice light thin finish with out the weight > that comes with epoxy. Matt, I don't know were you got your bottle of TM1?????? But Your Way Out Of The Box!!! I ALSO Disagree TM1 Is In, No Way! Shape! Or form! Even CLOSE To Being! Or like using PG or LS...... Period Nor have I ever had Epoxy that was properly applied ever Get milkiness under it caused by moisture?? Unless you color preserver did not dry 100%. Or it has cracked or you missed a spot. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Jay Dubay
(---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: July 02, 2018 02:36PM
Matthew Paul Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > you might want to take a pin and prick a hole near > the guide tunnels and hit it with a hair dryer to > make it evaporate out faster and then just dab the > pinhole with a drop of TM and you will be OK > > as for working with it you have to use a sponge to > apply and the coats are thin so it takes several > not just one or two like epoxy > threadmaster1 works the same as perma gloss or > luma seal so if you don't like TM1 you won't like > PG or LS either as these products were developed > for coating fly rods and raw blanks where you > want a nice light thin finish with out the weight > that comes with epoxy. Matt, I don't know were you got your bottle of TM1?????? But Your Way Out Of The Box!!! I ALSO Disagree TM1 Is In, No Way! Shape! Or form! Even CLOSE To Being! Or like using PG or LS...... Period Nor have I ever had Epoxy that was properly applied ever Get milkiness under it caused by moisture?? Unless you color preserver did not dry 100%. Or it has cracked or you missed a spot. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Phil Erickson
(---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 05:52PM
The milky appearance can also happen with two part epoxies if they are exposed to high humidity or moisture, it is called "Amine blush". It is the "hardner" that is hygroscopic and can absorb the moisture.
This is especially prevalent during the curing process and less so afterwards. However, a fully cured wrap may still blush if exposed to moisture and carbon dioxide for a lengthy period. Most commonly it is seen when rods are put away damp, such as in a tube or locker. Usually, the application of dry heat, such as a hairdryer will clear it up. In extreme cases there may also be a surface feeling of greasiness.. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2018 06:29PM by Phil Erickson. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Matthew Pitrowski
(---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 08:00PM
THREADMASTER
ONE APPLICATION TECHNIQUES THREADMASTER One a water based finish, is different than standard 2 part epoxy finishes. DO NOT USE FLAME IT HAS NO EFFECT ? There is no mixing of this product use it straight out of the bottle ? DO NOT SHAKE OR STIR ? Since this a new product, initial observations showed negligible thread color change after application ? Needs to be applied in temperatures above 67 degrees, temperatures any less greatly increase dry times. The warmer the better ? Adequate buildup can be achieved in 2 coats but definitely in 3 coats ? This is not a CP so use CP if necessary for your particular application ? Can be applied the same way you currently apply your 2 part epoxy ? This is water based when it is applied as the finish dries it will shrink a bit from the original application. ? I recommend the first coat should just get the thread soaked, no buildup at all, this will help with any bubbles that might occur with putting on a thicker coat. Wick off any extra. If CP is used this step can be skipped. ? Turn on a rod dryer, allow at least 3 hours between coats depending on the temperature ? The 2 nd coat can be applied much thicker, because of the shrinkage apply just a bit more than you would normally. ? If bubbles appear the only way to remove them is to either blow them out with a thin straw or use a toothpick or something similar a poke them out. FLAME WILL NOT WORK! ? Allow at least 72 hours for full cure, in cooler temperatures allow longer time ? Thank you for trying THREADMASTER ONE ? I am always open to suggestions; please let us know your application techniques The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !! Think out side the box when all else fails !!! Wi. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Jay Dubay
(---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: July 02, 2018 08:04PM
What the heck is that ??? you must have alot of time on your hands!
So is it this way?? Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) Date: December 15, 2017 10:07PM Norm you have good points as for getting any bubbles it won't happen if you don't over work it the same as you wouldn't over work epoxy to avoid bubbles. use TM1 directly from the bottle as it has a Yorker cap so there would be no need to squeeze it in to or on to a cup or plate just apply direct to the wrap and drag it with a brush or spatula and your good to go. as for the durability it is as tough as PG or Luma seal and is more scuff proof then epoxy. the information I am presenting to the form is from my using it for almost 2 years now and had nothing but excellent results and no problems. it is like any thing you have to use it and figure out how get the best results and what applications you would prefer to use it on . The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !! Think out side the box when all else fails !!! Wi. Or this way??? LOL Head Shake ??? It is a tool like any other finish and it is also new to the craft there is a learning curve for anything new. TM1 is a water based urethane finish I have been using it for the past 3 years to finish wraps on fly rods, carbon fiber gripsand finish coat raw blanks, with no problems again I say it has to be applied in thin coats THE SAME as YOU do with PG or luma seal. applied in thin coats it drys quickly around 65-72 degrees and re coats can be done in about an hour but it takes 4- 8 coats to achieve a deep glass like finish like epoxy yes if you use cp and it isn't cured and still moist because it to also is water based you get the milky problem.or if you have a tropical humidity/dew point it will cause a problem application is the same as PG or Luma seal with a sponge not a brush and none of these products should be applied with a brush in heavy coats or there definitely be problems lumps,ripples,drips,and over wet CP milky haze. being dismissive of tips to try to help another is wrong especially if YOU your self haven't tried to learn how to use it properly and found it not to your liking and tossed it out PERIOD. {I have been building longer than most on the site} and have seen all the trends come and go and the problems that can arise for builders because they have gone from being prudent about what they are doing to get it done fast and make mistakes big or small because they fail to READ the basic user information. then whine when there is a problem because that extra couple of minutes will be the end of the world because they can't move on to the next project and the first didn't turn out perfect. evidently no one understands what thin coats mean and are so they end up with problems. Fair Winds& following Seas Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2018 09:11PM by Jay Dubay. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Robert Metzger
(---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: July 03, 2018 08:58AM
The product made by Rod Dancer that is equal to PG is called Lumaseal, not Threadmaster 1.
Big difference. Threadmaster 1 is about the same viscosity as 2-part epoxy and is applied in the same manner as you would apply 2 part, for sure you would get a huge mess using a sponge. Lumaseal would be applied in the same manner as PG, multiple thin coats with sponge or whatever you have had good results with using PG. So much misinformation on the internet, and unfortunately believed by beginners. To post without knowing what you are talking about and then arguing that you are right is very harmful and could cause some poor guy asking advise in good faith to get off to a very bad start. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: July 03, 2018 10:03AM
Just to clear up what may be some secondary confusion, Lumaseal is similar to PermaGloss in that it is a moisture curing urethane but the two are not the same product.
............ Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
jon tobey
(---.cpe.metrocast.net)
Date: July 03, 2018 07:03PM
I did every one of those things and I have a milky finish.
Too bad, I had high hopes, but I cannot risk another inlay. Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Bill Sidney
(---.gci.net)
Date: July 04, 2018 04:54PM
don't know what you did but there is water/ moisture in or under the coats of epoxy , if the wrap was not sealed well , water / moisture might have gotten under your wraps
or into the thread , just my 2 CTS William Sidney AK Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by:
Phil Erickson
(---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 04, 2018 05:29PM
I would be very interested to hear from the users of TM1, as to the benefits they achieve other than, the time saved and mix error risks. Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
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