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Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: jon tobey (---.cpe.metrocast.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 06:06PM

I finished a rod last week and brought it home to NH. I covered the inlay in Threadmaster 1. I hiked it in and fished it, then put it in the sock and tube, no issues when I put it away. This morning, all the wraps were milky white! This went away 99% today, but WTH? Anybody with experience/advice?
I guess it's back to epoxy for me. Can I epoxy over this stuff?

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 06:29PM

The milkiness is caused by moisture. If it was put away damp this often happens. Heat from a hairdryer will usually clear it up. It can happen to most two part epoxies as well.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: jon tobey (---.cpe.metrocast.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 06:32PM

So this is going to go away?
I really want to go away from epoxy, but I'm really disappointed in this stuff. It was terrible to apply.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Jay Dubay (---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: July 01, 2018 07:49PM

The Concept is good but that's about it, I threw mine away, After doing a Sample wrap and Exposing it to the weather, It will clear up Like mentioned above. Just Not my cup of Tea! And yes it's to Hard to work with. Needs more RD in my opinion.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 09:30PM

you might want to take a pin and prick a hole near the guide tunnels and hit it with a hair dryer to make it evaporate out faster and then just dab the pinhole with a drop of TM and you will be OK

as for working with it you have to use a sponge to apply and the coats are thin so it takes several not just one or two like epoxy
threadmaster1 works the same as perma gloss or luma seal so if you don't like TM1 you won't like PG or LS either as these products were developed for coating fly rods and raw blanks where you want a nice light thin finish with out the weight that comes with epoxy.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 11:11PM

No! Threadmaster 1 is quite different from PG or lumiseal, it is much more viscous and more difficult to apply. PG and LS are both organic solvent based, very thin, and are catalyzed by moisture in the air, so moisture makes them harder. I have observed for TreadMaster 1, If you wait too short a time between coats or apply too a heavy coat you get a rubbery finish that turns milky when in the presence of moisture. I you want to use ThreadMaster 1 apply thin coats and wait a couple of hours between coats. If done properly it does gives a decent finish. I still prefer an epoxy finish for thread wraps and PG as a clear coat for blanks.
Norm

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 01, 2018 11:30PM

gees NORM did you miss this part of my response

as for working with it you have to use a sponge to apply and the coats are thin so it takes several not just one or two like epoxy

also explain how you apply heavy coat of PG or luma seal ?

considering the MFG of all the above and TM1 recommend applying thin coats to achieve good results
the TM1 is water based and the others are solvent based naturally they have a higher evaporation rate than a water based coating. a water based coating works differently because of the humidity in the ambient air it is applied and will take longer to cure. water has a low evaporation point at temps lower than 100 degrees.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 12:04AM

You did state that TM1 works the same as PG and LS, this is what I replied to. If I misunderstood this then I apologize. I did not mention anything about applying a heavy coat of PG, I apply very thin coats to the blank by wiping/squeegeeing it on using a saturated cosmetic sponge. I do agree with you that TM1 requires multiple thin coats, and I also added that one should give sufficient time between coats. Not waiting long enough for the TM1 to dry/cure between coats results in the same thing as applying too heavy of a coat. This heavy coat causes the improper drying/curing resulting in a rubbery finish that will turn milky.
Norm

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 11:04AM

I too threw away my TM1. I found it had no benefits other then not having to mix two part, and all the shortcomings mentioned above.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: jon tobey (---.cpe.metrocast.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 02:09PM

Super frustrated. I'm going to try to sand it down and maybe expoy over it. Thanks for all of the technical and moral support.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Jay Dubay (---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: July 02, 2018 02:36PM

Matthew Paul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you might want to take a pin and prick a hole near
> the guide tunnels and hit it with a hair dryer to
> make it evaporate out faster and then just dab the
> pinhole with a drop of TM and you will be OK
>
> as for working with it you have to use a sponge to
> apply and the coats are thin so it takes several
> not just one or two like epoxy
> threadmaster1 works the same as perma gloss or
> luma seal so if you don't like TM1 you won't like
> PG or LS either as these products were developed
> for coating fly rods and raw blanks where you
> want a nice light thin finish with out the weight
> that comes with epoxy.
Matt, I don't know were you got your bottle of TM1?????? But Your Way Out Of The Box!!! I ALSO Disagree TM1 Is In, No Way! Shape! Or form! Even CLOSE To Being! Or like using PG or LS...... Period
Nor have I ever had Epoxy that was properly applied ever Get milkiness under it caused by moisture?? Unless you color preserver did not dry 100%. Or it has cracked or you missed a spot.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Jay Dubay (---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: July 02, 2018 02:36PM

Matthew Paul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you might want to take a pin and prick a hole near
> the guide tunnels and hit it with a hair dryer to
> make it evaporate out faster and then just dab the
> pinhole with a drop of TM and you will be OK
>
> as for working with it you have to use a sponge to
> apply and the coats are thin so it takes several
> not just one or two like epoxy
> threadmaster1 works the same as perma gloss or
> luma seal so if you don't like TM1 you won't like
> PG or LS either as these products were developed
> for coating fly rods and raw blanks where you
> want a nice light thin finish with out the weight
> that comes with epoxy.
Matt, I don't know were you got your bottle of TM1?????? But Your Way Out Of The Box!!! I ALSO Disagree TM1 Is In, No Way! Shape! Or form! Even CLOSE To Being! Or like using PG or LS...... Period
Nor have I ever had Epoxy that was properly applied ever Get milkiness under it caused by moisture?? Unless you color preserver did not dry 100%. Or it has cracked or you missed a spot.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 05:52PM

The milky appearance can also happen with two part epoxies if they are exposed to high humidity or moisture, it is called "Amine blush". It is the "hardner" that is hygroscopic and can absorb the moisture.

This is especially prevalent during the curing process and less so afterwards. However, a fully cured wrap may still blush if exposed to moisture and carbon dioxide for a lengthy period. Most commonly it is seen when rods are put away damp, such as in a tube or locker.

Usually, the application of dry heat, such as a hairdryer will clear it up. In extreme cases there may also be a surface feeling of greasiness..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2018 06:29PM by Phil Erickson.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 02, 2018 08:00PM

THREADMASTER
ONE
APPLICATION
TECHNIQUES
THREADMASTER
One
a
water
based
finish,
is
different
than
standard
2
part
epoxy
finishes.
DO
NOT
USE
FLAME
IT
HAS
NO
EFFECT
?
There
is
no
mixing
of
this
product
use
it
straight
out
of
the
bottle
?
DO
NOT
SHAKE
OR
STIR
?
Since
this
a
new
product,
initial
observations
showed
negligible
thread
color
change
after
application
?
Needs
to
be
applied
in
temperatures
above
67
degrees,
temperatures
any
less
greatly
increase
dry
times.
The
warmer
the
better
?
Adequate
buildup
can
be
achieved
in
2
coats
but
definitely
in
3
coats
?
This
is
not
a
CP
so
use
CP
if
necessary
for
your
particular
application
?
Can
be
applied
the
same
way
you
currently
apply
your
2
part
epoxy
?
This
is
water
based
when
it
is
applied
as
the
finish
dries
it
will
shrink
a
bit
from
the
original
application.
?
I
recommend
the
first
coat
should
just
get
the
thread
soaked,
no
buildup
at
all,
this
will
help
with
any
bubbles
that
might
occur
with
putting
on
a
thicker
coat.
Wick
off
any
extra.
If
CP
is
used
this
step
can
be
skipped.
?
Turn
on
a
rod
dryer,
allow
at
least
3
hours
between
coats
depending
on
the
temperature
?
The
2
nd
coat
can
be
applied
much
thicker,
because
of
the
shrinkage
apply
just
a
bit
more
than
you
would
normally.
?
If
bubbles
appear
the
only
way
to
remove
them
is
to
either
blow
them
out
with
a
thin
straw
or
use
a
toothpick
or
something
similar
a
poke
them
out.
FLAME
WILL
NOT
WORK!
?
Allow
at
least
72
hours
for
full
cure,
in
cooler
temperatures
allow
longer
time
?
Thank
you
for
trying
THREADMASTER
ONE
?
I
am
always
open
to
suggestions;
please
let
us
know
your
application
techniques

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Jay Dubay (---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: July 02, 2018 08:04PM

What the heck is that ??? you must have alot of time on your hands!

So is it this way??

Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 15, 2017 10:07PM

Norm you have good points as for getting any bubbles it won't happen if you don't over work it the same as you wouldn't over work epoxy to avoid bubbles.
use TM1 directly from the bottle as it has a Yorker cap so there would be no need to squeeze it in to or on to a cup or plate just apply direct to the wrap and drag it with a brush or spatula and your good to go.
as for the durability it is as tough as PG or Luma seal and is more scuff proof then epoxy.
the information I am presenting to the form is from my using it for almost 2 years now and had nothing but excellent results and no problems.
it is like any thing you have to use it and figure out how get the best results and what applications you would prefer to use it on .

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Or this way??? LOL Head Shake ???
It is a tool like any other finish and it is also new to the craft there is a learning curve for anything new.
TM1 is a water based urethane finish I have been using it for the past 3 years to finish wraps on fly rods, carbon fiber gripsand finish coat raw blanks, with no problems again I say it has to be applied in thin coats THE SAME as YOU do with PG or luma seal.
applied in thin coats it drys quickly around 65-72 degrees and re coats can be done in about an hour but it takes 4- 8 coats to achieve a deep glass like finish like epoxy yes if you use cp and it isn't cured and still moist because it to also is water based you get the milky problem.or if you have a tropical humidity/dew point it will cause a problem
application is the same as PG or Luma seal with a sponge not a brush and none of these products should be applied with a brush in heavy coats or there definitely be problems lumps,ripples,drips,and over wet CP milky haze.
being dismissive of tips to try to help another is wrong especially if YOU your self haven't tried to learn how to use it properly and found it not to your liking and tossed it out PERIOD.
{I have been building longer than most on the site} and have seen all the trends come and go and the problems that can arise for builders because they have gone from being prudent about what they are doing to get it done fast and make mistakes big or small because they fail to READ the basic user information. then whine when there is a problem because that extra couple of minutes will be the end of the world because they can't move on to the next project and the first didn't turn out perfect.
evidently no one understands what thin coats mean and are so they end up with problems.
Fair Winds& following Seas



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2018 09:11PM by Jay Dubay.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Robert Metzger (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: July 03, 2018 08:58AM

The product made by Rod Dancer that is equal to PG is called Lumaseal, not Threadmaster 1.
Big difference. Threadmaster 1 is about the same viscosity as 2-part epoxy and is applied in
the same manner as you would apply 2 part, for sure you would get a huge mess using a sponge.
Lumaseal would be applied in the same manner as PG, multiple thin coats with sponge or
whatever you have had good results with using PG. So much misinformation on the internet,
and unfortunately believed by beginners. To post without knowing what you are talking about
and then arguing that you are right is very harmful and could cause some poor guy asking
advise in good faith to get off to a very bad start.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 03, 2018 10:03AM

Just to clear up what may be some secondary confusion, Lumaseal is similar to PermaGloss in that it is a moisture curing urethane but the two are not the same product.

............

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: jon tobey (---.cpe.metrocast.net)
Date: July 03, 2018 07:03PM

I did every one of those things and I have a milky finish.
Too bad, I had high hopes, but I cannot risk another inlay.

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Bill Sidney (---.gci.net)
Date: July 04, 2018 04:54PM

don't know what you did but there is water/ moisture in or under the coats of epoxy , if the wrap was not sealed well , water / moisture might have gotten under your wraps
or into the thread , just my 2 CTS

William Sidney
AK

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Re: Rod Dancer Threadmaster 1 gone milky
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 04, 2018 05:29PM

I would be very interested to hear from the users of TM1, as to the benefits they achieve other than, the time saved and mix error risks.

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