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Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Matt Caplis (---.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
Date: May 15, 2018 11:04PM

I just used Pro Kote high build for my latest rod and was very upset at how it turned out. I ordered from Mudhole, so the product was new, including syringes. I used 3cc part a and b. Mixed by hand slowly in a small plastic shot glass and then transferred to a metal pan (purchased from Mudhole). I then blew on it with a straw to try and get rid of the bubbles. It didn't work well. No worries, the directions say they'll pop once applied and if they don't use light heat, which I did (alcohol lamp). I use a spatula to apply my epoxy. The amount of bubbles in this mix is insane! I'm used to Pro Kote, but the regular stuff, which is thinner and never have I had bubbles using my process. I measured very carefully too, making sure I had the correct amounts of each part. I'm disheartened at the finished product. I have another Rainshadow rod to do this week, so if anyone can offer up useful tips I'd appreciate it. I did a search and found some information, but what I found is what I've done basically.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2018 11:14PM by Tom Kirkman.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 15, 2018 11:15PM

There's certainly nothing wrong with that finish, but you may have to adapt to it. In the meantime, see if anything here is helpful to you:

[www.youtube.com]

.............

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Matt Caplis (---.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
Date: May 15, 2018 11:24PM

Just for clarification, I am not blaming the product. If it sounded that way, I'm sorry. I'm frustrated and want to do a good job on the next rod. I'm just looking for help. Thank you for the link. Tom, why did you edit my post? Did I do something wrong?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2018 11:36PM by Matt Caplis.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Bill Sidney (---.gci.net)
Date: May 15, 2018 11:48PM

The stiffer the epoxy the harder it is to get the bubbles out , if you heat it a little [ not to much ] it will flow better an the bubbles will come to the surface a lot faster ,
you did not say if the bubbles were in it or on top , if on top the bubbles will go with the straw , if they are in the epoxy heat will let them raze to the top then the straw will work,
if you have a lot of little bubbles on top one / 2 drops of DNA will do away with them all , as I see it could be wrong , some people will scream no DNA but one or 2 drops should not hurt don't mix it just 1/2 drops on top an watch ,

William Sidney
AK

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 15, 2018 11:59PM

OK here we go you did most of it right till you got to mixing it you stirred it to fast incorporating air causing the bubbles
what you need to do is to use a folding mix method and roll the cup, if you don't know how to do it ask your wife it is a method used for incorporating wipped things together in baking
measure out your equal parts and check that they are equal then slowly squeeze them in to the mix cup then use either a round plastic or flat stick and roll the cup not the stick and make sure that it flows from the middle of the cup to the side when it turns cloudy keep mixing till it goes back to clear and you will then pour it on or in to the tin to apply and there should be a minimum of bubbles incorporated in to the mix apply as the video shows and you should end up with a clean good finish

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Matt Caplis (---.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
Date: May 16, 2018 07:17AM

Bill, most of the bubbles were in the epoxy. You're correct, the ones on top burst when I used the straw to breath on them. I did use an alcohol lamp for heat, but I worried that I would apply too much and only increase the amount of bubbles. I do have DNA, so maybe I can give it a shot.

Matt, I will try folding the next batch that way. I'll try using a popsicle stick which is flat. Thank you Bill & Matt.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Randy Kruger (---.dhcp.klmz.mi.charter.com)
Date: May 16, 2018 07:58AM

When I use the High Build, I will pore it out on foil, and then spread it thin while i pore it out. The High build will have a much shorter pot life, but will cover is a single coat. Mild heat and blowing on it with a straw will also work wonders. Don't put it on too thick.. and let it do its thing after once it is applied.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 16, 2018 09:53AM

Expert advice for handling this troublesome product above- not the brand, the viscosity. But. . . For the future it seems the obvious choice is to go to a lower viscosity product, and use two coats if necessary. Easy to avoid footballs, fewer bubble problems, less need for heat or diluting. Overall, more reliable high quality wraps. If one is new to Pro Kote medium build, be aware that it takes a very long time to cure, sometimes well beyond overnight. But if properly mixed it will cure. I prefer Flex Coat Lite.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 16, 2018 10:58AM

I use Threadmaster high build, which I measure using syringes, and only measure what I need. (I hate wasting stuff!) I squirt each on top of the other into a small aluminum pan and mix it vigorously with my brush. Get millions of bubbles, which I get rid of by using a small bernzomatic butane torch that I pass very quickly ( less than a second) over the mix. The bubbles almost instantly disappear and the mix becomes clear, and bubble free. I then quickly apply the mix to the threads while the rod is a rotating. After applying I stop the rotation and use a dubbing needle to apply a small amount of epoxy to the tunnels and ensure I have complete overage. I also use the dubbing needle to remove any excess epoxy that may start to sag. I start rotation again and quickly flame each wrap with the butane torch. I know some will cringe on how I mix and apply epoxy but it works great for me, without any problems. Been doing it way for many, many years well before the accepted methods became available.
Norm

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.90.---)
Date: May 16, 2018 12:23PM

I agree with Norm , the key to ridding yourself of all bubble problems is either a butane or propane torch , you can apply the finish even if it's jam packed with bubbles and as soon as you flame it they will be instantly gone . Forget the alcohol torch it doesn't work nearly as well , i use an alcohol torch to get rid of frizzies only because it doesn't burn as hot as other flames .


I rapidly move a small butane torch up and down or from side to side and it wipes out all the bubbles instantly , it's astonishing just how effective it is , doesn't matter if the mix is all bubbles either they will be gone instantly . Once you try flaming the wraps you will never use a straw or have to mix slowly to avoid bubbles again.


The intensity of the heat from butane and propane is higher and thats why they work so well , epoxy finishes take the heat very very well as long as it's brief , how do you know too much heat is being applied , the finish will start to smoke but there will be no damage done at all . All the bubbles will be long gone by the time the finish starts to smoke though .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2018 12:30PM by herb canter.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: May 16, 2018 02:08PM

Matt, Michael and Norman's posts offer excellent advice here and both have something in common.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 16, 2018 02:17PM

A mechanical mixer will absolutely prevent any bubbles whatsoever in your mix.

............

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.90.---)
Date: May 16, 2018 03:18PM

The mechanical mixer does work great as Tom mentioned and i used to use one . That was until i read something Billy V said about him never having bubble issues , he said it doesn't matter if the finish is stirred into a bubbly froth because all you have to do is flame the finish with a propane torch and your jaw will hit the floor in total amazement . I decided to try it , well lets just say i was absolutely floored just how effective it was and also upset realizing how much time i wasted going with every other method that turned out to be less effective in the end.

Sure you can go with a thinner viscosity as i went from Threadmaster regular to the lite version and that helped somewhat but it wasn't perfection until i flamed the lite finish also , then it was perfect . A huge thanks to Billy for sharing that.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Matt Caplis (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: May 16, 2018 03:25PM

Well, thank you for all the wonderful advice. I'm going to have to use the Pro Kote again this week, so I'll try and incorporate the many suggestions in this thread. I'll let you guys know how it goes!

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Nuno Paulino (---.dsl.telepac.pt)
Date: May 16, 2018 06:06PM

I use Pro Kote High build and i only do two things: i warm a little the two components separated and than mix them and when i transfer it to a foil and if i have bubbles i apply heat from under the foil not directly to the finish. That will make the bubbles came to the surface and just need a small blow with the heat gun directly to the finish.
Hope this can help you.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: May 16, 2018 07:41PM

Well @#$%& sounds like fun, guess I'll give it a try.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Sam Folds III (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 16, 2018 09:10PM

invest in a heat gun ;-)

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 16, 2018 10:18PM

tried the mechanical mixer and was more issues and wasted mix than it was worth to use to this day I still mix in a cup and as I stated I roll the cup using a spatula to scrape the side of the cup allowing the mix in the middle of the cup to flow to the sides so it gets incorporated in to the mix thoroughly and in about 2-3 min I have it thoroughly mixed and ready for the foil and application to the rod if there are some bubbles I do the same thing Nuno says I just flash heat it and bubbles are gone I use just a plain old bic lighter as it only takes just a flick of a bic most of the finishes work just fine at 70 degrees or higher and don't need any pre mix heating unless you have crystals in one of the parts.
but I avoid that because I don't buy large amount of finish at one time that way I always have fresh and crystal free finish to work with from the start, this also helps eliminate problems with finishing a rod . You should be able to coat a rod with finish in less than 10 minutes if it takes longer you in to your self leveling and curing pot life .
one last thing I never dilute or thin my epoxy finish just use the proper viscosity finish for the rod your building thin for fly rods and ultra light rods medium for most others and just do a second coat if needed and high build for the finish on weaves and heavy but wraps.
ONE thing you learn when doing this craft/hobby is the hurryer you go the farther behinder you get or the more problems you have so JUST hurry up and take it slow and easy.= 9999.99 % perfect results

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Tony Boschi (---.craigtechinc.com)
Date: May 17, 2018 12:41PM

If I can add anything to what has already been said, I will add what I posted in a different post this month.

I take my bottles of both resin and hardener and put them in a Tupperware (or any plastic) bowl and start filling the bowl with water until the bottles are JUST ABOUT to start floating.

Take the bottles out and put the bowl of water in the microwave for 3 to 5 minutes. Take the bowl out of the microwave.

Put your bottles, with the caps loosened, in the water and let them sit for 5 minutes.

The resin and hardener become thinner as they get warmer so when you start mixing, the bubbles don't get "trapped" in the mixture like they do when the resin and hardener are cold and if there are any bubbles, they come right to the top and break on their own. Another thing, mixing the resin and hardener isn't like mixing cake batter, slow and easy, take your time.

And Mathew Paul said it best, " the hurryer you go the farther behinder you get "

Tony Boschi
Banana River Rods

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Re: Tried Pro Kote High build....ughh
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 17, 2018 05:15PM

I tried heat gun, too easy to overheat and get wavy finish. Also, unless you have a really clean area, it will stir up dust, fly tying feathers, etc. It can be done well, but easy to screw up.

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