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Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: Sid Thao (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: April 05, 2018 11:44PM

Hello! I’m looking at two rods that has the same lure weight and action but different power rating, ML and L. Not sure how that works? Is it because of the different tapers? But even so, how can it have the same lure ratings? In case you’re wondering, the rods are:

MHX - SJ9000, 7’6” ML Fast action , lure: 3/16 - 3/8oz, line: 6-12lb
Phenix Bass Recon2 - PHX-S762L-B, 7’6” L Fast Action, lure: 3/16 - 3/8oz, line: 4-10lb

Your inputs are appreciated!

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: April 06, 2018 01:03AM

Sid,
Pretty simple - Different manufacturers. Each manufacturer uses their own rating system.

Good luck

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: April 06, 2018 10:22AM

I suspect it is exactly as Roger mentions. Different manufacturers have different power ratings for the same lure weight range.

I'd also look at the nomenclature used to describe the type of blank it is, as that may have something to do with the different named power ratings. The MHX blank is an SJ, meaning spin jig. The Phenix blank is an S blank, which I assume means it's a spinning blank. Spinning blanks and spin jig blanks have different characteristics. Spin jig blanks usually have more of a tip to butt taper than spinning blanks.

I'd also look at the line size ratings. My guess is that the Phenix blank with its 4 - 10# line rating, is for the lack of a more definitive term, "softer" than the MHX blank with its 6 - 12# line rating.

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: April 06, 2018 10:41AM

The rods probably aren't identical in action, even though both are listed as "fast." Remember, that's a pretty wide swing. Not much resolution. If most of the initial flex takes place in the upper 3rd of the blank, it's considered to have a fast action. There could be a substantial difference in action between the two and yet both would be correctly labeled as fast. Another reason why the Common Cents AA (action angle) is superior. It puts an actual number on the action. The resolution is much, much greater.

...........

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: Joe Vanfossen (---.43.178.26.nw.nuvox.net)
Date: April 06, 2018 12:41PM

Line and lure ratings are pretty subjective, and depend a lot on the intended use of the blank. For example, you can likely find blanks designed for throwing large crank baits and flipping sticks that have very similar lure ratings, but the action and power of each rod will be drastically different. I know it is a bit of an extreme comparison compared to the blanks in question, but it's a starting point for the discussion.

Someone can correct me, but the MHX SJ9000, I believe was designed to be similar to HS9000 blanks from other manufacturers. These blanks are designed primarily to be used in back trolling rivers for trout and salmon. The technique doesn't involve much casting, and the upper end of the rods are really limber with some power down deep in the butt section. The goal is to have a rod that will not react and recover so quickly that it will rip treble hooks from the fish, yet have the power to handle sizable fish. That doesn't mean that these rods do not have a place in bass fishing or inshore fishing, just that they are designed with an action and power for one task, and labeled with line/lure sizes that are commonly used for that technique.

I haven't looked at the detailed specs for the Phenix blank mentioned, but the name and line/lure rating seem to point toward a blank designed for drop shotting or other finesse techniques.

Since I haven't held the blanks side-by-side, I cannot say for certain how they compare, but I would suspect the Phenix blank to be a bit more powerful/more stiff from tip to butt.

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: Sid Thao (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: April 06, 2018 05:56PM

Thanks all. I figured it was due to different manufacturers. It’d be nice if all manufacturers supplied a common cents number!

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: David Miller (---.triad.res.rr.com)
Date: April 06, 2018 06:12PM

Yeah big difference between a rod with a 65 action angle to one that is 75. I think some label rods fast action even when it is Mf just as a selling point which doesn’t make sense. Then some manufacturers confuse power and action. It is all subjective without CCS measurements.

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: Kevin Althoff (45.52.59.---)
Date: April 06, 2018 06:14PM

Joe- Interesting comment. I have used hot shot rods for bass fishing before, might that be a name for the technique you're referencing? I searched for HS9000 on mudhole and found out that MHX makes a HS9000 rod in their salmon/steelhead line. It has identical line, lure, action, and power ratings as well as an identical 4.5 tip, but a different butt, with the HS9000 having a narrower butt section. To me this suggests that the SJ9000 is a bit more of a traditional bass/walleye rod action but I have no experience to back that up. Would love for somebody who has handled either of those to chime in.

In regards to the original question, other replies stating that it varies from one manufacturer to another are spot on. I'd take it a step further and say that even with a single company there can be variation from one line of blanks to another. For example, an 8-14# line spinning blank might have less power than an inshore blank by the same company, etc etc... Until you've held both an MHX SJ rod and a Phenix Bass Recon2 its tough to know how they compare.

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: April 06, 2018 09:30PM

Looking at the line and lure ratings the SJ9002 looks closer to the power of the GLoomis HS9000. The MHX hotshot blanks at least an early HS9000 and the HS9600 are considerably softer than the Loomis blank. If I was to pick a blank off the top of my head, their tips have a power much closer to the St. Croix S76MLXF. In other words almost ultralight in power.

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: Joe Vanfossen (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: April 06, 2018 10:33PM

Thanks guys, that's what I get for going off of memory and not digging up the numbers on the SJ9000 and checking whether they had an HS model or not. And yes, the back trolling technique I was referring to is hot shotting.

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Re: Rods with same line/lure weight but diff power?
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: April 07, 2018 08:20AM

Off topic, I just want to say that it's nice to see you back and posting Joe. I've been wondering how you've been for quite a while. Nice to see you.

On topic, I was basing my opinion on an experience I recently had that mirrors Sid's original post. A few years ago I built on a Pac Bay Quickline SJ 782 blank. It's a blank that's rated for 1/8 -3/8 oz baits, 6 - 12# line, with an extra fast action. Published AA for the blank is 78. This past year I purchased an NFC DS 6107 blank. It is rated for the same 1/8 - 3/8 oz baits, but for 4 - 8# line, with an extra fast action. While I've not seen published AA numbers for the blank I did check it using CCS, and the AA is 77 - 78. So the published and measured numbers for both blanks are just about spot on for the two.

The NFC DS blank is a completely different animal when compared to the Quickline SJ blank. I understand the NFC blank is 4" longer, and that will make a difference in perceived feel, but they are worlds apart in how powerful they feel. While I didn't measure the wall thickness of each blank, they did visually appear to be very close to each other. As such, I attributed the difference in the power of the two blanks to the much greater tip to butt taper of the Quickline SJ blank.

I've yet to fish the rod I built on the NFC DS 6107 blank, so I can't speak with any accuracy as of yet, but It's not a rod that I think will be well suited for double duty as a drop shot / shaky head jig rod. My perception is that it is pretty much a drop shot rod, and nothing more.. Light line and open hooks. The Quickline SJ blank is well suited for both techniques.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2018 08:20AM by David Baylor.

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