So before I ask this, I want to say I did do quite a bit of search on here before hand. This may seem like a dumb question, and I'm not quite sure why I haven't figured it out.

Is the last guide in the reduction chain the same size ring as the choker guide? As in even that last reduction guide is placed in a spot to keep the straight line from the choker guide to the spool axle.

For instance....4 guide reduction train calls out KL20H, KL10H, KL6L, KL5.5L. Assuming that we want that choker guide to be a KB, would a KB5.5 be the next guide? Are the heights between the KL5.5L and KB5.5 designed to work together like that?

OR....

Is it intended that you drop down one more size for the choker guide? Thus making the choker guide a KB5?

The choker will be the same guide as all the rest of the guides to the tip.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 09:38PM by Spencer Phipps.

The choker guide will be in front (between the reel and the choke point) a little of the choke point, so use whatever guide gives you the best transition. A taller guide is going to go slightly closer to the reel than a shorter guide, but if the spacing is not graduated then it will look strange. Try to keep the line straight as possible into the transition with a nice spacing between guides. This will determine if it will be a taller guide or a shorter guide. This may also eliminate that KL 6 if it doesn't look right.

Thanks for the response. I realize the choker guide is the same size as the rest of the running guides and the tip.... but... is it also the same size ring as the last reduction guide?

For the KR concept with the 4 guide reduction train you outlined above, the KL5.5L will serve as your your choke guide. The four guide reduction is unusually used for longer rods and/or with rods having a moderate action. By having a choke guide with a little more height with long and/or soft rods helps the line run a little smoother into the lower profile runner guides. You do not change the choke pt, you just put a slightly higher guide in the choke position. I would still use a KB after the KL5.5L, and a KB5.5 would be just fine. Hope this helps.
Norm

Sean Mitchell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the response. I realize the choker
> guide is the same size as the rest of the running
> guides and the tip.... but... is it also the same
> size ring as the last reduction guide?




On the 9 foot rod i am building now my last reduction guide is indeed the exact same size as the choker , last reduction guide is a 5.5 M and choker is a KB 5.5 which runs into KT 5.5 size runners . I considered putting a size 6 M where the 5.5 M is since i am running a KL-H 25 to 12 H to a 5.5 M but imo the 6 looks to be a slightly better fit but i went with the 5.5 M .

I honestly don't think most would notice any difference using either size .

The first running guide is the choke guide. In other words, if the reduction drops to a 5.5, that's the choke guide.

...........

Do your 4 guide reduction as Fuji recommends, and then your running guides as you want. If the last guide of reduction is 5.5, and you want 5.5 runners, no problem. The only thing to consider is there is no justification for a runner to be larger than the last guide of the reduction train.

Perfect. So the last reduction is the choker and is placed at the choke point.

These are 9'-11' medium action light rods, hence the 4 guide reduction. First rod came out pretty good, but some just didn't quite seem right around the choke point. So I'm just recovering my setup.

On a separate note, the rod I built has a little bit of line slap before the stripper guide. However, the inside diameter of the stripper guide is already slightly less than half the diameter of the spool. I'm running a large arbor Abu Garcia Revo Rocket 3500 with 50lb braid. The spool diameter comes out at a little over 2", but I really don't want to step up to a 30 stripper.

Any advice? My initial thought was to move the stripper slightly closer to help tame the line quick. But since the guide is already just a hair too small i'm not sure that's what I'll need. I'll have to zip it and cast before I finalize it, but was curious if anyone had any direction.

Thanks

There's nothing wrong with experimenting. And if you do move to a size 30 butt guide, you can likely move it closer than the guide you have there now.

You have to understand that there is not concrete rule about what size or where a guide should be located. The line path will show you what sizes and where to locate if you'll let it. In the meantime, experiment.

.............

Using the KR Concept you will have often have two guides that are the same size at the end of the reduction train. The important part is that they are two very different heights.

Sean,
Don't worry about what a guide is called.

Put your first big guide down on the rod and run smaller guides down the rod until you get to the tip such that the guides let the line flow freely and the line stays off of the blank and you will have a great handling and useful rod.

Good luck

Sean Mitchell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perfect. So the last reduction is the choker and
> is placed at the choke point.
>
> These are 9'-11' medium action light rods, hence
> the 4 guide reduction. First rod came out pretty
> good, but some just didn't quite seem right around
> the choke point. So I'm just recovering my
> setup.
>
> On a separate note, the rod I built has a little
> bit of line slap before the stripper guide.
> However, the inside diameter of the stripper guide
> is already slightly less than half the diameter of
> the spool. I'm running a large arbor Abu Garcia
> Revo Rocket 3500 with 50lb braid. The spool
> diameter comes out at a little over 2", but I
> really don't want to step up to a 30 stripper.
>
> Any advice? My initial thought was to move the
> stripper slightly closer to help tame the line
> quick. But since the guide is already just a hair
> too small i'm not sure that's what I'll need.
> I'll have to zip it and cast before I finalize it,
> but was curious if anyone had any direction.
>
> Thanks



Wow, 50 pound braid , if i was ever going to use line that heavy i would definitely opt for the KL-H 25 as the stripper and move it out to around 25 inches instead of the much more common and recommended 20" for lines up to 30 pound braid.

It’s not the diameter of the guide that is important it’s the height of the guide. How far away is your stripper from the spool? Using 50# braid does present a little bit of a problem. Since you already have the guides and do not want to buy another reduction train. try pushing the stripper a little further out rather than bringing it closer. For example if your stripper is currently at 20” or 21” from the spool push it out to 21” or 22” or maybe even to 23”. Move the rest of the the reduction train accordingly. Take it out and test cast. Other options are to switch to 20 or 30# braid, or change to a 25H, and12H based 3 or 4 guide reduction train.
Norm

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s not the diameter of the guide that is
> important it’s the height of the guide. How far
> away is your stripper from the spool? Using 50#
> braid does present a little bit of a problem.
> Since you already have the guides and do not want
> to buy another reduction train. try pushing the
> stripper a little further out rather than bringing
> it closer. For example if your stripper is
> currently at 20” or 21” from the spool push it
> out to 21” or 22” or maybe even to 23”. Move
> the rest of the the reduction train accordingly.
> Take it out and test cast. Other options are to
> switch to 20 or 30# braid, or change to a 25H,
> and12H based 3 or 4 guide reduction train.
> Norm


Hi Norm , i believe the below is the new guide sizes in the KL-H sets sold at Mudhole , different than what the KR GPS data recommends a bit. Particularly with blanks up to 8 feet , they recommend a 16 H instead of the 12 H .


KL-H Guide Kit Includes:

Rods up to 6': 16H (1), 8H (1), 6M (1), 5.5L (1), 5J (5)

Rods 6'1" to 6'6": 20H (1), 10H (1), 6M (1), 5.5L (1), 5J (6)

Rods 6'7" to to 7': 25H (1), 12H (1), 7M (1), 5.5L (1), 5J (6)

Rods 7'1" to 7'6": 25H (1), 12H (1), 7M (1), 5.5L (1), 5J (6)

Rods 7'7" to 8': 25H (1), 16H (1), 8M (1), 5.5L (1), 5J (6)

Rods 8'1" to 8'6": 25H (1), 16H (1), 8M (1), 5.5L (1), 5J (7)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2018 12:05AM by herb canter.

Herb - It seems to me that Mud hole is trying to take the KR concept and turn it into a NGC. They are free to do what they want to do, but I would not buy their kits. Go with what is recommended by Fuji, they are the ones that did all the engineering and research to come up with the KR concept, they are also the ones that gave us the NGC. Their guide concepts work so well that they have been copied by most other guide manufacturers.
Norm

Yes. 50lb powerpro. This is for float fishing and 50lb braid floats so much better than 30 that it makes it worthwhile. I think the combo of the 50lb braid and larger spool diameter for the Revo means I should move the stripper out.

The last stripper guide was KL25H about 20.5" from the spool axle. Maybe I'll push this next one out to 22" or 23". The Revo's have very large spool diameters when compared to their height. I think that's making the line slap exaggerated.

Sean,
Move it out to 25 inches and you will be good to go.

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Herb - It seems to me that Mud hole is trying to
> take the KR concept and turn it into a NGC. They
> are free to do what they want to do, but I would
> not buy their kits. Go with what is recommended
> by Fuji, they are the ones that did all the
> engineering and research to come up with the KR
> concept, they are also the ones that gave us the
> NGC. Their guide concepts work so well that they
> have been copied by most other guide
> manufacturers.
> Norm


I agree 100% Norm , i guess since they're in kit form they want to add more guides than is actually needed and recommended .

Sean Mitchell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. 50lb powerpro. This is for float fishing
> and 50lb braid floats so much better than 30 that
> it makes it worthwhile. I think the combo of the
> 50lb braid and larger spool diameter for the Revo
> means I should move the stripper out.
>
> The last stripper guide was KL25H about 20.5" from
> the spool axle. Maybe I'll push this next one out
> to 22" or 23". The Revo's have very large spool
> diameters when compared to their height. I think
> that's making the line slap exaggerated.


Hi Sean , yeah i agree a much larger spool diameter will have an effect on stripper placement and ring size and while Norm says you will be fine with the 20 size ring it will need to be moved a bit further out than a 25 size ring at essentially the same height would need to be moved out. I'm still experimenting with stripper guide placement on my 9 foot rod and at 22" inches from the tip of the spool axle it casts well but i feel a bit more vibration with it than i would like . I have now placed it at 23 and a half inches and will test cast again.

My reel for testing is a Stradic 5000 size with 20 pound braid which is considered an average spool diameter not overly small and not overly large .

Let us know how far out you end up putting the stripper when you find the spot that works the best .


Side note : Are people measuring the guides the same way , some measure distance at the very top of the guide ring while others measure at the bottom of the ring .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2018 03:42PM by herb canter.