Hey guys, Roger again. Has anyone experimented with lock wraps on these types of guides? I've tried several times, and it seems like i leave gaps toward the guide ring end (unavoidable) I tested the wrap on some old l runners and LV's. with out any problems. Seems like the Kt is a bit different behind the foot I'd like to use this type of wrap on my single foot guides just for added insurance. Thanks,Roger

I have no problem doing the locking wrap on the KR guides. I add my tie off loop early, wrap right to the stem of the guide, do a couple of wraps behind the guide and pack with my fingernail, do the three separate wraps around the stem, and three final wraps behind everything. Before cutting the thread I hold the tie off loop with both hands and wiggle it back and forth. This tends to pack the wraps together without any gaps. I also wrap with A or B thread, but not sure if it makes a difference. I also think that a locking wrap is not absolutely needed with the Fuji KB and KT because they are designed to stay in place without a locking wrap, I also have to admit that I have never had a guide pull out on rods which I did not do a locking wrap. After I started replacing lots of pulled out micro guides on production rods, I started using the locking wrap. The guides on these rods had really tiny feet, and absolutely require a locking wrap. The locking wrap gives me a little more confidence that my guides will not pull out. If you unhide your email I will send you a picture of KR guides with locking wraps.

Norm

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no problem doing the locking wrap on the KR
> guides. I add my tie off loop early, wrap right to
> the stem of the guide, do a couple of wraps behind
> the guide and pack with my fingernail, do the
> three separate wraps around the stem, and three
> final wraps behind everything. Before cutting the
> thread I hold the tie off loop with both hands and
> wiggle it back and forth. This tends to pack the
> wraps together without any gaps. I also wrap with
> A or B thread, but not sure if it makes a
> difference. I also think that a locking wrap is
> not absolutely needed with the Fuji KB and KT
> because they are designed to stay in place without
> a locking wrap, I also have to admit that I have
> never had a guide pull out on rods which I did not
> do a locking wrap. After I started replacing lots
> of pulled out micro guides on production rods, I
> started using the locking wrap. The guides on
> these rods had really tiny feet, and absolutely
> require a locking wrap. The locking wrap gives me
> a little more confidence that my guides will not
> pull out. If you unhide your email I will send
> you a picture of KR guides with locking wraps.
>
> Norm


Norm, so you wrap right up to the stem, go around the guide foot three times and finish behind the guide with three more wraps ? I guess my question is once you make three wraps around the guide do you ever go back around the front of the guide & blank again or do you just make three wraps behind the guide.

I have gone over the Forhan info in the library a billion times and still get confused.

Not quite. I wrap up to the stem, then make two complete wraps behind the guide, then on the next pass I wrap the thread 360 degrees around the stem and continue the wrap behind the guide and I repeat this two more times. This give three complete 360 degree wraps around the stem. I then finish by wrapping three more times behind the guide. I wrap by hand so this is very simple for me and has become almost second nature. I hope this is clearer to understand. Make sure to pack the thread behind the guide and you will not see a gap. The first two wraps behind the guide are important in not getting a gap.
Norm

OK , so you wrap up to the stem, ( Is this the end of wrapping in front of the guide) and go twice around the back of the guide and then make (A single ) wrap 360 degrees around the stem and then continue behind the guide foot two more times and then up for 1 more 360 around the guide and two more behind the guide to finish . I'm trying to find out if you ever go up in front of the guide again after you hit the stem for the first time


Thanks and 'yes', i'm aware i'm an idiot .

Maybe this will help
[www.rodbuilding.org]

Thanks Seth! So using the terminology in the Forhan article, I inert the tie off loop much earlier and wrap up to the stem, then do two “blocking” wraps behind the guide. I then do three separate “licking” wraps around the stem of the guide, and then three more blocking wraps behind the “locking wrap”. So in my wrap there are a total of eight wraps behind the foot. Rich Forhan had a total of six wraps behind the guide. I like doing two initial blocking wraps on the KB/KT guides because they line up better with the locking wraps on these guides.
Norm

Seth Johnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe this will help
> [www.rodbuilding.org]



Thanks Seth for the thought , i guess you missed what i said above in a previous post lol.


"I have gone over the Forhan info in the library a billion times and still get confused"


It's the thought that counts , have a good day my friend.

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Seth! So using the terminology in the
> Forhan article, I inert the tie off loop much
> earlier and wrap up to the stem, then do two
> “blocking” wraps behind the guide. I then do
> three separate “licking” wraps around the stem
> of the guide, and then three more blocking wraps
> behind the “locking wrap”. So in my wrap
> there are a total of eight wraps behind the foot.
> Rich Forhan had a total of six wraps behind the
> guide. I like doing two initial blocking wraps on
> the KB/KT guides because they line up better with
> the locking wraps on these guides.
> Norm


Norm , when you do the 360 around the stem the first time do you go in the same direction the second time etc...

OK , i have figured out what i am confused about , here is what Rich says in his instructions .

"The thread is then wrapped AS NORMAL AROUND THE BLANK and two more identical "locking" wraps, also encircling the guide leg, are made" and " After a total of 3 locking wraps have been made, the thread is wrapped for 2 more turns in NORMAL FASHION and the wrap is tied off"


I am unsure about the AS NORMAL part , when it says continue to wrap AS NORMAL ( IS THIS ALWAYS BEHIND THE GUIDE AND AROUND THE BLANK ) ? No more wraps go in front of the guide is that correct ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2018 12:48PM by herb canter.

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK , i have figured out what i am confused about ,
> here is what Rich says in his instructions .
>
> "The thread is then wrapped AS NORMAL AROUND THE
> BLANK and two more identical "locking" wraps, also
> encircling the guide leg, are made" and "
> After a total of 3 locking wraps have been made,
> the thread is wrapped for 2 more turns in NORMAL
> FASHION and the wrap is tied off"
>
>
> I am unsure about the AS NORMAL part , when it
> says continue to wrap AS NORMAL ( IS THIS ALWAYS
> BEHIND THE GUIDE AND AROUND THE BLANK ) ? No more
> wraps go in front of the guide is that correct ?

My bad, I did miss you saying that.

From the article. "A blocking wrap is what I term any wrap that is made beyond the guide leg/ring, as in the standard single foot guide security wrap."

You are correct. No more wrap in front of the guide. The article has it as follows. One blocking wrap, 3 locking wraps, two blocking wraps. Norm's way is great too.

Here's a video that will give you a visual. They neglect the last two blocking wraps, but hopefully this will help. [youtu.be]

Seth Johnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herb canter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK , i have figured out what i am confused about
> ,
> > here is what Rich says in his instructions .
> >
> > "The thread is then wrapped AS NORMAL AROUND
> THE
> > BLANK and two more identical "locking" wraps,
> also
> > encircling the guide leg, are made" and "
> > After a total of 3 locking wraps have been
> made,
> > the thread is wrapped for 2 more turns in
> NORMAL
> > FASHION and the wrap is tied off"
> >
> >
> > I am unsure about the AS NORMAL part , when it
> > says continue to wrap AS NORMAL ( IS THIS
> ALWAYS
> > BEHIND THE GUIDE AND AROUND THE BLANK ) ? No
> more
> > wraps go in front of the guide is that correct
> ?
>
> My bad, I did miss you saying that.
>
> From the article. "A blocking wrap is what I term
> any wrap that is made beyond the guide leg/ring,
> as in the standard single foot guide security
> wrap."
>
> You are correct. No more wrap in front of the
> guide. The article has it as follows. One
> blocking wrap, 3 locking wraps, two blocking
> wraps. Norm's way is great too.
>
> Here's a video that will give you a visual. They
> neglect the last two blocking wraps, but hopefully
> this will help. [youtu.be]



Thank you very very much Seth , i think i got it now ( I think ) is the key word here.

Thanks again Seth for helping to clear it up. Being from Katy TX you are in the middle of Flex Coat country. They do a good job with their videos. Herb, Yes, once you start behind the guide, there are no more wraps in front of the guide. The Flex coat video is using Fuji KT guides, and shows that a locking wrap can be done with these guides. However, he does not do any initial blocking wraps behind the guide, and you can see the gap that forms and requires a little more packing to close it. By using one or two initial blocking wraps the gap is basically filled and it is no longer present, and the final two or three blocking wraps behind the three locking wraps helps to square up the wrap. So there are different, but very similar, ways to lock a single foot guide in place. My version of this wrap requires a couple of extra turns overall. I also insert my tie off loop much earlier in the wrap because I do not pull my cut thread all the way out of the wrap. Rather, after inserting the cut end of the thread into the tie off loop, I pull the cut thread and loop up tight to the very end of the wrap and I cut the tag end of the thread very close to the tip of the loop with a pair of sharp scissors. I then pull the loop out, and this leaves the tag end of the thread under the wraps without any nibs or fuzzies to trim. Been doing it this way for many years and it works for me. By the way, I will also use the tie off loop to help pack the threads at the end of the wrap as I mentioned above.
Norm