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*8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: John Ondash (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 01:38PM

Building 3 TFO BVK 8 weights and the questions I have are:

1. Will SF Pac Bay Minimas hold up as the running guides for Steelhead, Smallmouth and Largemouth use?

2. What size stripper and running guides to use?

3. TFO website shows guide spacing from tip as: 5 1/8 - 10 7/8 - 17 1/8- 24 -31 1/2 - 39 5/8 - 48 1/4 - 57 1/2 -67 3/8 -77 5/8
The distance of the first guide from tip seems pretty far to me.

Any input from you guys will be appreciated

Yunko

Yunko

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 03:06PM

Cannot help you with guide size and durability for the single foot guides as I use snakes.

My experience with multiple TFO builds has been the guide locations are typically close to spot on correct. Nonetheless, you ought to confirm guide locations with a static load test and then adjust locations and load test again as indicated.

Some believe the farther forward the last stripping guide the better in terms of casting distance. Try moving the guide forward with the guides taped in place, make several casts, and determine if it helps you. Just don't get carried away and make it difficult to reach the line with your line hand. 76" to 78" is not an unusual distance from the tip top to the last stripping guide for a 9' fly rod.

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: John Ondash (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 03:15PM

(My concern is the 51/8 distance from the first guide from the Tip. Seems it should be closer the the low 4s.

Yunko

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 03:22PM

John..trust your senses, add one more guide to your guide train and you can comfortably put the first guide where you want it..

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: March 06, 2018 04:19PM

Yes, the guides are robust enough to hold up for what you want to do.

...........

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: John Ondash (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 04:34PM

Tom:
Thank you for the advice. I read a post from you in the forum before regarding the SF Minimas but I don't recall your recommended stripping guides and running guide sizes.. Wonder if you could impart some of your wisdom on what you would use in this instance. The rods are for me and two of my best fishing buddies and I don't want to have to tie these twice! Let me know if you need any more info from my side.

Yunko

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 05:54PM

The guide specs will be fine, no advantage to adding guides, some of the Sage rods have 6 inches, or more between the tip top and the first guide.

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 06:16PM

John,please don,t put sage, orvis, gatti etc. on a pedistol, you can build a far better fishing tool. you will eventually understand this.

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 06:30PM

Ben,
I'm not advocating putting any rod on a pedestal, but if you have a rod using longer tip guide spacing, it is durable over many years of use, and you like lively, light tipped, lighter swing weight rods like many do, it is the best way to go about it.

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 07:11PM

I agree with Spencer, adding a guide, especially in the tip section is a bad idea! That is the section where additional weight penalizes performance. A guide 5" from the tip on an 8wt is not a problem, but do check it out by doing the "static load" test, you may find you move it slightly. As for guide sizes, I'd go with 16 & 12 strippers and size 8 Minima F.

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 07:45PM

where is Steve Gardner when you need him..this is so hard for my to explain but you can feel the difference in the number of guides used on a rod.. it,s a more positive hook set, a quicker response from the rod thus a quicker response from you when fighting a fish..your just more aware of what the fish is doing...ty your fly line to a door knob and back off about 20' and but a 90 degree bend in the rod which has 10 guides..just imagin these guides are slotted so that you you can take the line out of the guide so that the line is now skipping the guide. again take the line out of another guide, then another guide and so on.each time you do this the rod tip will back up because your giving line back, your moving less line for the hook set or for controling a fish..on the other hand if you have 11 or 12 guides and you shorten the gaps between guides you will pull even more line and have more control..these single foot guides are so light and don,t slap on so much finish i can,t imagin any change in swing weight..there is much more to fishing than just casting..you want to hook and land the fish to..

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 10:02PM

Ben, the suggested layouts have survived the test of time. A fly fisherman is casting very much more then they are landing fish! As long as the line follows closely the bend in the rod, adding guides is superfluous!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2018 06:00PM by Phil Erickson.

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 10:38PM

by using more guides, the line and the rod are becoming one and that,s how to get the most out of your rod

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 10:52PM

Ben,
This is a 9 ft. rod with what you would consider a light power for bass purposes, casting is important, he's using it for steelhead. You can't use a larger number of smaller guides on a fly rod, the construction of the rod is completely different than your bass rods, fly rods throw the line not the lure, and I've had physical injuries from fly fishing, never from bass fishing. Swing weight to me is far more important in a fly rod than any other type of rod I've ever used, tip weight is critical because the success of the cast requires a correctly timed forward acceleration, followed by an abrupt stop, add weight 8 ft. from your hand that doesn't need to be there makes that abrupt stop that much harder.

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: John Ondash (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 11:48PM

I appreciate all the information you guys are giving me. I've built 50 or so spinning rods with great success, but fly rods are relatively new to me. I'll order in the blanks and guides and do a static test after the handle assemblies are completed. Im leaning Phil's way on the strippers and guides, but would like to know how you arrived at the size 8 runners. I was hoping to go as small as possible on the running guides. What would be the + or - of going with 7s or even 6s provided the the line, loop and knot connections will pass through?

Yunko

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 07, 2018 11:32AM

Spencer, who,s talking about bass lures here? i build fly rods to mainly throw hair bugs for bass which can also be used for steelheads which is a fish just like a bass is a fish, so don,t try to marginalize bass..the rods are the same..they both use guides to control the line and all i,m saying is an additional guide or two will give you a little more control and i,m not buying the swing weight bunk, it,s not a bamboo rod.

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 07, 2018 12:35PM

John, something just occured to me. are you using these rods for spey or skagit roll casts or the standard fly cast..if your rolling, ignore everything i just wrote..lol.

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 07, 2018 06:08PM

On second thought, add as many guides as you want anywhere on the rod......just don't expect it to perform the way it was designed to perform! Adding guides to have the line follow more closely to the blank. does not add to casting distance or accuracy, in fact can inhibit same, If those are not important to you go ahead with the additions.

Comparing Bass and Steelhead is like comparing Volkswagen's and Ferrari's!

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Eugene Moore (---.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
Date: March 08, 2018 07:56PM

John,
I can provide spacing if you desire.
I will need the rod tip dia, the distance from the rod tip to the reel and the desired number of guides.
If you choose to use a heavier guide, then factory, you may consider using less than the factory build.

Gene

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Re: *8 weight Build-Guide questions
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 09, 2018 04:51AM

John,
The biggest mistake you can make with single foot guides instead of double foot snake guides is putting as many single foot guides as double foot snakes. In order to get the performance of the double foot snakes you need to use more single foot guides. Ben is correct in what he is saying. I do not want to put down the Minimas but Fuji "L" ceramic ring guides are lighter in the same size ring. A lot of guys will say the rod will not work like it is designed to because the single foot guides are heavier but where it really matters the most, at the tip top, they will put the standard loop style fly tip top that is heavier than a ceramic ring style tip top. So I will need to assume the rod was made for a heavier tip top. On a nine foot rod I would use 12 Fuji ceramic ring guides plus a ceramic ring tip top. Not counting the first two stripper guides with single foot runners you will have ten wraps of epoxy and thread. With double foot snakes the seven running guides will have 14 epoxy and thread wraps. What is that doing to the performance of the rod plus a heavier tip top. Fly rod manufactures use snake guides because they work and they are cheaper. You can make a high performance rod that will work and cost more to make.
Cheers,
Lance

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