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Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Raymond Faus (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: February 06, 2018 04:48PM

Hi folks,

I’ve seen it done, but I was wondering what some your experiences are with using a fly tying bobbin in conjunction with a power wrapper. I have a PacBay wrapper. I didn’t like the carriage that came with it, so I got the four spool carriage with thread tensioner. I can’t say that I’ve ever accurately fingered out how to make this dial tensioner work well, as well as figure out how to back up my thread when I screw up. It’s sort of this weird act of backing up the pulley and hand winding the thread back onto the spool. It looks and feels like some bizarre yoga pose while I’m doing it. Your thoughts? How have you McGyver’d your setup? BTW- I’m not really doing pro type wrapping patterns of diamonds and stars. Just normal wraps with trim bands. I’ll get to that other stuff after I’m done obsessing about just being half-assed proficient with this.

Thanks,

-Raymond

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 06, 2018 07:24PM

Raymond

I primarily build fly rods so the thread work common for a bait caster is still considered a bit over the top for a fly rod. But I've tried using a fly tying bobbin, and, frankly, found it more trouble than benefit for things like inlaid turns, JTOBs, fades, etc. For trim bands, a short length of soda straw and a three to five turn nail knot is simpler and quicker for me.

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: February 06, 2018 07:37PM

Raymond,
Here is the instruction manual for the pac bay 4 thread carriage:

[www.fishpacbay.com]

Note, just run the thread from the spool to the first line guide, then around the tension spool in the direction that is appropriate for the spool position and then out through the 2nd thread guide to the rod. But, before you start wrapping hold the spool tight and pull on the loose end of the thread, so that the thread is fully seated down between the tension disks all of the way to the tension disk center shaft. Then, start with a loose tension on the thread and while pulling on the thread, tighten the thread tension knob until you have a correct feeling tension on the thread. Then, in actual wrapping either leave alone, or loosen, or tighten the tension knob as needed until you have the tension dialed in perfectly for the thread being used. Normally, once set, and if using the same size and same brand thread, you do not have to readjust the thread tension when changing thread spools.

If you make a mistake, grab the thread on the spool side of the thread tension device and then back up the rod. As the rod backs up, continue to pull on the thread so that any loose thread is pulled back through the tension device. Then, unless you have pulled a lot of thread back, just go ahead and rewrap as needed. If you did have to pull a lot of thread wrap, take a few seconds to rewrap the thread back onto the spool.


The important thing to remember, when correcting a mistake is to pull on the thread on the spool side of the tension device. The tension device will keep the thread tight between the device and the rod so you don't lose any wraps already made. Then, as needed either ignore, or if necessary, rewrap the loose thread back on the spool.

Good luck

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Jerry Driggers (---.ec.res.rr.com)
Date: February 06, 2018 07:55PM

I use bobbins for wrapping on my power wrapper.I bought 12 of the large Griffin bibbins that held the 1oz spools years ago and never looked back. I can run 4 bobbins at a time for tiger wraps or just one for doing a guide wrap and still I'm able to do inlays, fades and stuff with them with no trouble at all. I guess it's all in what you get used to. Now If I owned a Rennzetti rod lathe, I would most definitely get used to and use it's thread carriage.

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Barry Thomas Sr (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: February 06, 2018 09:30PM

Been using large bobbins since "91" when I first started,built my own rod lathe out of Alum. but could never get a carrage to work. Now I have a Clemens and my thread Carage is in a Drawer. Still use bobbins

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: February 06, 2018 09:51PM

Jerry or Barry, I would love to see some photos of a tiger wrap in progress using bobbins. Is this a possibility? I use a 4 spool carriage, spools sitting upright, (stationary with a spring wire tensioner and opposing magnets applying tension on the spools and move it, or my handwrapper up and down the blank as needed. All this being homemade. Always open to the ideas of others.

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Steve Monroe (---.kya.res.rr.com)
Date: February 06, 2018 10:09PM

I added a wire tensioner to my carriage.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 07, 2018 12:21AM

I use a combination of both carriage and bobbins when doing certain wraps carriage & bobbin for inlays, OB's and fades as you can band them to the rod if needed and they hold the tension for inlays an fades and just let it hang for OB and you don't have to fish around for the thread on a OB
carriage to start a wrap and bobbins for the decorative part of a wrap once you get use to using a bobbin in conjunction with a bobbin you will be able to do them a lot faster with less tension issues from the carriage.
the bobbin works great for doing under wraps as they are at times quite long and you have total control over how the thread lays easy to keep out the gaps means less burnishing.
I have about 8 or 10 bobbins I prefer the Rite adjustable tension bobbins and 3 different configured thread carriages depends on the type of rod and wrapping I am working on. it comes down to the users preference just like doing a weave do you prefer bar type looms or circular looms.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Raymond Faus (---.mycingular.net)
Date: February 07, 2018 01:06AM

All solid experiences...and the education I needed on the thread tensioner. Looks like I’ll be trying the bobbin on my next build. What’s the worst that can happen...I’d screw up? The great thing about all this is anything I mess up can be fixed before I apply finish, so I’ll pull my big boy pants up and try something new.

Danke!

-Raymond

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Seth Johnson (---.williams.com)
Date: February 07, 2018 07:38AM

Steve Monroe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I added a wire tensioner to my carriage.
>
> [www.rodbuilding.org]
> /photo/20574/title/thread-tension/cat/508


I'm interested in doing this on my machine. What kind of wire did you use?

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Raymond Faus (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: February 07, 2018 07:57AM

Yeah, Steve...I wanna do that too! Please share! I’ll throw one of those on my old carriage if you can share your specs and method of installation.
I keep looking at the CRB hand wrapper...and thinking...I know I can put one of those on my carriage if I just knew what kind of sorcery would make it happen.

Thanks,
-Raymond

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Capt. Craig Freeman (---.hampton.k12.va.us)
Date: February 07, 2018 10:05AM

Bobbin by far is best for me. I can't wrap a rod without a bobbin. It's almost like having a third hand.

Capt. Craig Freeman
Grading Scales Sportfishing and Back River Rods

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Capt. Craig Freeman (---.hampton.k12.va.us)
Date: February 07, 2018 10:05AM

Bobbin by far is best for me. I can't wrap a rod without a bobbin. It's almost like having a third hand.

Capt. Craig Freeman
Grading Scales Sportfishing and Back River Rods

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Steve Monroe (---.kya.res.rr.com)
Date: February 07, 2018 09:29PM

It is stainless wire used for making spinner baits. 0.051" is the size I used just because I had it on hand. I wouldn't see an issue with something smaller. I twisted a loop one end and made a "z" bend on the other end. Drilled a hole just big enough for the wire to fit in. Make the leg of the "z" bend about 1.5" and drill the hole through the top and the lower part of the carriage. I am not at my shop so I don't know for sure how long the wire is but it is just long enough that is doesn't hit the guide on the blank when wrapping. Works really good, lets you back up a little without losing tension on the thread.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2018 09:59PM by Steve Monroe.

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: David DeBruhl (170.7.248.---)
Date: February 08, 2018 10:14AM

Seth and Raymond

I wonder if this can be used for this since it is sold separate from the hand wrapper from Mudhole. Looks like we could drill a small hole and super glue this in on the thread carriage and add the spring wire.

[www.mudhole.com]?

[www.mudhole.com]

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Seth Johnson (---.williams.com)
Date: February 08, 2018 10:39AM

Thank you Steve!!


David DeBruhl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seth and Raymond
>
> I wonder if this can be used for this since it is
> sold separate from the hand wrapper from Mudhole.
> Looks like we could drill a small hole and super
> glue this in on the thread carriage and add the
> spring wire.
>
> [www.mudhole.com]
> and-Wrapper-HWS-TR?
>
> [www.mudhole.com]
> ube

I do think you can use these, but I recently modified my HWS-1 to hold 4 spools. I was doing a three thread tiger wrap; that proved too much for the Mudhole tension rod, and it snapped. Mine worked fine for a year on the HWS-1 using a single spool, but now I need something heavier duty.

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Raymond Faus (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: February 08, 2018 12:43PM

Is that a fly rod tip on Mudhole’s wire tensioner? Either way, I’m gonna give this a try. I might even attempt to drill as many as three or four holes for the wire. It seems logical that being able to move the wire to change its own action...would be of benefit. After all, there’s other factors to the tension of thread. Thread size, blank thickness & flexibility, and style of wrap, etc...
Just guessing, but it seems as though anything I buy these days...needs some modification to either make it work correctly or just 10% better. It does seem silly to buy the wire tensioner when I can shape one for $1.50 in material from the hardware store, but I actually want a working wire in my hands so that I can either improve its performance or decide that it’s a stupid design. That’s when I end up rubbing the two brain cells together I have left, and making my own tension wire. As proof of my soft mind, I recently bought some of those bright colored, rubber coated wire tool wraps. I use them for bundling hoses and to mark my surf rods at the pier while Dungeness crab snaring amongst 30 guys. The other night I found an entire coil of the exact same material meant for tying off plants and trees...but for 1/4 of the price that (2) wraps are sold.

Thanks Seth, Steve, and David!

-Raymond

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Steve Monroe (---.kya.res.rr.com)
Date: February 08, 2018 08:47PM

Hope it works well for you.

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Dave Orr (---.nt.northwestel.net)
Date: February 08, 2018 10:49PM

I built my own wrapper (non-power) and use my home built thread carriage when wrapping most stuff.
I do use bobbins when wrapping decorative wraps though. :)

Regards
Dave

Fishing is Life the rest is just Details

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Re: Bobbin instead of thread carriage?
Posted by: Paul Darby (---.pn.at.cox.net)
Date: February 09, 2018 01:24PM

I suggest stainless steel leader wire single strand 360 lbs. or higher. Easy to shape , good spring quality, coiled or straight or in combination. I make a lot of springs and small tools from different sizes of leader wire. I repair fishing tackle and there,s a lot of situations they just don't make tools to address.

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