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Guide train questions
Posted by: Jason Strength (---.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
Date: February 03, 2018 08:36PM

Hey guys, it's been a long while while since I posted so bear with me. I'm currently building a casting rod on a 7'2" mhx blank which will be used primarily for snook and reds in swfl backwaters and I need some advice on guide sizing. The guide run that I've chosen from butt to tip is as follows: 12, 10, 8 double foot guides and 8 running guides size 6 single foot. Does this guide run sound appropriate for this build our should I start at the butt with smaller guides and run out to 5's? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't mind getting smaller guides if it would be a better option. Thanks in advance!

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 03, 2018 09:17PM

If you are using a low profile (bass type) reel I would go with a Fuji KR set up. If you are going to use titanium guides I would use an RV6 for the stripper followed by KB/KT runners in either size 5 or 4.5. Could also use the double ft KW5.5 as the second guide. If you are like many people and titanium Sic or Torzite guides are out of your price range, then use the new Fuji corrosion control guides with a CC (matte silver) or BC (smoke grey) frame. For these guides I would use a KW10 stripper, then a KW5.5, followed by KB/KT size 5 or 4.5. The nice thing about the corrosion control guides iis that they are extremely corrosion resistant but cost the same as the regular stainless guides. In addition, you can get matching corrosion control tip tops in various ring sizes.
Norm

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Jason Strength (---.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
Date: February 03, 2018 09:38PM

Who's currently carrying these guides. Are they available on mudhole?

Jason

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 03, 2018 09:46PM

Mudhole has them as well as other places.

[www.mudhole.com]
[www.mudhole.com]
[www.mudhole.com]
[www.mudhole.com]
[www.mudhole.com]

Norm

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Jason Strength (---.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
Date: February 03, 2018 09:52PM

What's the difference in the alconite and fazlite

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Jason Strength (---.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
Date: February 03, 2018 10:05PM

Also, what about a 10 double foot graduating to an 8 double foot and them rooming 5's. Do you think the addition of the 8 would be excessive?

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 03, 2018 10:11PM

Alconite is a very hard and smooth form of Aluminum Oxide, and it is lighter than Sic, but not as hard. Fazlite is less expensive, but is also a form of Alumiinum oxide and is basically an upgraded and modernized version of the discontinued Fuji Hardloy ring, and like Hardloy it has a blue ring. Both Alconite and Fazlite are extremely hard and extremely resistant to line grooving. You can not cut or even scratch either of these ring materials with a hacksaw blade or metal file. They are both great buys and will give you years of hard fishing abuse.

You really do not need to use a KW8 transition guide, if you wanted you could use a KW6 to transition to the size 5 runners. If you do not want to use the smaller runners (5 or 4.5 KB/KTs), you could then use a size 8 or 7 KW to transition to size 6 runners. Runner Size is basically your choice. Once I started using the Fuji KR concept with size 5, 4.5 or 4 runners I have never looked back. They preform great and I do a lot of bass fishing and inshore saltwater fishing without any problems or regrets.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2018 10:26PM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Jason Strength (---.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
Date: February 03, 2018 10:51PM

Great info. Thanks Norm!!!

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 04, 2018 07:48AM

I also really like the Fuji setup, and suggest that if one uses the Fazlites in matted silver, the titanium KR won't look that much out of order. Yes, it will be shinier, but these guides are small and mismatches won't be that big of a deal. I also would use a titanium framed tiptop to get the SIC ring on the tiptop, the highest stressed guide with respect to grooving. I'm starting a spin rod for salt that will have Fazlites to the tiptop, with a titanium/SIC tiptop. Different strokes. . .
I am optimizing function over slight appearance differences.

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: February 04, 2018 09:22AM

Jason,
If I were building the rod, I would use exactly the setup as you originally suggested using Aconite guides which are a nice compromise in strength durability, price and longevity.
With the guide sizing you suggest, you will have no issues with casting line type or sizing and no issue with knots or leaders.



Good luck

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Jason Strength (---.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
Date: February 04, 2018 10:48AM

What do you think about me pulling the 12 from the original run and adding another 6. So I would start with a 10, 8, and finish out with 6's

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 04, 2018 10:56AM

IMHO, that would be better. You don't need a 12. The RV is a high 6 and works very well. The Fuji method starts with the RV, then goes to the tip with whatever diameter you prefer. I've settled on 5 1/2 as the sweet spot for me, but any of the proposals you've had and seen will work well.

Regarding the appearance of the Fazlite ring, it is a handsome dark blue ring. I always thought the Hardloy was an ugly gray, but maybe I'm remembering the wrong guide material. The Fazlite is not as fat as what I remember from the old ugly gray guides.

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Jason Strength (---.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
Date: February 04, 2018 10:58AM

I currently have the black framed alconite.

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 04, 2018 12:03PM

If you do not want to go with micro guides then a KW10, KW8, and KT6 runners will be fine. Testing by Fuji has shown that the KW10 as a stripper is sufficiently high enough to pass line efficiently from a low profile casting reel. Both the KW10 and RV6 are the same height at the base of the ring. The KW10 can be used in both the older New Guide Concept (non micro) or the newer KR concept (micro) setups. The RV6 is used only in KR concept setups, however, it only comes in a titanium frame. Your use of size 6 runners would be considered a NCG setup. In my opinion the KR concept is a performance enhancer over the NGC, due to less weight in the tip section of the rod, which gives the rod a noticeable lighter and more responsive feel. I was very skeptical before I first tried a KR concept build, but I was very pleasantly surprised with it performance and feel. I have basically stripped down or given away all of my NGC Rods and replaced them with KR guides. I also realized that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so the choice of which ‘guide concept’ to use is yours.
Norm

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: February 04, 2018 12:19PM

I always wonder if questions about guide size and type selection are seeking opinions primarily about appearance, durability, or performance?

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: February 05, 2018 07:16PM

I make a lot rods for this type of fishing and Norman is right on with Micro / KR guide set up. The only thing I would differ on is the KW guide set up vs the RV set up. I would still use a KW 6 mm ring and not a 10mm because with the length of your rod you can adjust the stripper distance a little farther out with the KW than the RV that can go closer to the reel due to its height. I usually do the RV 6 but rods where I adjusted the the KW 6 farther away from the reel will cast just as good. Even if you do use the 10 it will still be no noticeable difference. If you are not going to use Titanium frames in saltwater due to the price I would at least get the CC frames in Alconite. You also need to use at least 10 guides if you are going to micro sizes on a rod that long. I have not tried the Fazlite ring so I cannot recommend them but I was once told by the owner of a large rod and blank company that the ring material does not make any difference in the casting. I also believe that micro guides work best spiral wrapped.

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 05, 2018 08:49PM

Jason, in case you have not seen it before, I have attached a Fuji U tube video giving slow motion casting data on both their KR spinning and casting guide concepts. This video was probably made before the release of the RV6 guide. The casting section is in the second half of the video so you can drag to the start of the casting part. This video came from Anglers Resource.
[m.youtube.com]

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Jason Strength (---.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
Date: February 11, 2018 01:15AM

Thanks so much for all the input guys. I've decided to run the guides out in 5's. I'm having trouble finding a matching Fuji tip top with the appropriate tube size for my blank with the 5 ring. I was able to find what I need with a 5.5 ring. My question is, will it make a difference in function if my tip ring is a half size larger than my running guide rings? Again, thanks for all the help.

Jason

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 11, 2018 09:06AM

I don't believe you would be able to tell the difference between 5 and 5.5 tiptop. Don't forget to use a couple KB's in your guide train.

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Re: Guide train questions
Posted by: Jason Strength (---.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
Date: February 11, 2018 10:50AM

Tell me again what purpose thee kb's serve. I ended up going with the L series runners.

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