Hello, I am just getting started in rod building. I have built 6 rods with black Prowrap colorfast nylon thread, and on some rods I used Threadmaster epoxy and on some I tried diamond d2 epoxy. What I have noticed is that the rods with Threadmaster the wraps look pure black with epoxy on them. Whereas the rods with the Diamond epoxy the wraps have a dark blue hue when in direct light or say flash from a camera. I guess my question is has anyone else experienced this? Or are there any thoughts on the cause? Is it the thread? The epoxy? The application method? Or a potential combination?

Thanks for the input!

About all you can do is make a longer wrap from the same thread and try the different epoxies on various sections. If it's the same thread, then the difference is the epoxy. If you use the same epoxy but different thread, then it's the thread, so on and so forth.

.............

I have also noticed that black color fast (noCP) thread does not give a true black color after finishing with certain epoxy finishes. One of the reasons I use regular black thread for wrapping. Try regular black thread vs color fast black with both epoxies and see if you see a difference.
Norm

x A question on this ? #1 will the color of the ROD also #2 , how tight the wraps are packed also, effect the hue of the color of the finished wrap, just a question

William Sidney
AK

Zack, if you send me an e-mail I can send you some info.

Bill Sidney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> x A question on this ? #1 will the color of
> the ROD also #2 , how tight the wraps are packed
> also, effect the hue of the color of the finished
> wrap, just a question


The rods are all gloss black blanks. The threads were size D and packed ok but obviously not as good as they probably could be being that I'm only 6 rods into my building career right now. I am double wrapping the guide feet. I'm also having issues with the tensioner on the alps power wrapper I have. The wheel the thread passes through is just two metal pieces sandwiched together by the tensioner spring and my thread keeps getting in between the two discs and creating way too much tension.

Did you use color preserver? If yes its possible that he was not dry enough and makes that blue look on the thread.

Black NCP is usless. Black nylon and finish gets the "blackest" And it gets better if you mix a little blue pigment in the finish. Printers run blue ink over top of blacks at times to make them appear blacker still.

Zach,
I wonder if you understand how to use the thread tension device on your wrapper?

I believe that the actual thread tension device is the same as this one?

[www.mudhole.com]

The way that this thread tension device works is that you hold the spool side of the thread tight. Then, you pull the thread itself down tight to the bottom of the shaft that hold the two metal disks. The spring and the corresponding adjustment knob supplies the tension on the thread. So, with the thread pulled down tight to the bottom of the area between the two metal disks, let go of the spool side of the thread and now just pull on the free end of the thread. Now, while you are pulling on the free end of the thread, turn the tension adjusting nut to tighten or loosen the spring and cause the thread tension to tighten or loosen accordingly.

This identical thread tension device design is used in millions of sewing machines around the world every day and all of the clothing you wear was put together using sewing machines with this style thread tension devices.

To start from the beginning, just loosen the adjusting nut all of the way. Then, slip the thread all of the way into the space between the slots and begin to pull on the thread. Continue to tighten the adjusting nut, until the tension is so great that you can no longer pull the thread through the device. Now, you will have developed a feel for the least amount of tension you can generate, up to the breaking point of the thread with the most tension you can generate.

Finally, do some test wraps staring with loose tension, and then gradually tighten the tension, one turn at a time until you finally get to the tension that you like to see on your wraps. After you spend an hour or so on doing these tests, you will be better prepared to handle the tension variety that you will use in all of your rod building.

---------------
I use essentially the same tension device for wrapping all of the rods that I have ever wrapped. But, always do the same thing. Every time I put on a new spool of thread on the machine, I always test the tension and adjust the tension accordingly. Every spool of thread can have a slightly different twist, a slightly different diameter which all affect the overall thread tension as it goes through the tension disks.

============
p.s.
On these tension disks, it is a good idea from time to time to clean them and to double check them to be sure that they have absolutely clean surfaces and that no spot on the surfaces of the tension disks have any irregularities, or rough spots. If you find even the slightest blemish, you can use auto fine polishing compound to insure that each surface is glass smooth with no defective spots at all. If, you do find that you have a defective tension disk that you can not polish smooth, then, scrap it and pick up a new tension device,
A tension disk that catches at all on the thread will ruin a good wrap.

-------------------------
By the way, I essentially copied the construction of this thread stand that I have used for wrapping all of my rods over the years. I use the same tension device that you have on your wrapper.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

With the wing nuts on the base of the arm, I can adjust the height of the arm and the tension device to position the thread to my liking, I generally like to have the thread coming from a location that is about 2 inches higher than the turning rod. I have tried having the thread path very low to very high. But, I find that the 20 degree angle or so of the thread coming down to the rod work well for my particular needs. As you can see in this picture, the thread runs back to the arm, then up to the top of the arm and to the tension device, where the thread is pulled down to the shaft of the tension device as it goes out of the tension device to the rod.

Best of luck in your building.

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zach,
> I wonder if you understand how to use the thread
> tension device on your wrapper?
>
> I believe that the actual thread tension device is
> the same as this one?
>
> [www.mudhole.com]
>
> The way that this thread tension device works is
> that you hold the spool side of the thread tight.
> Then, you pull the thread itself down tight to the
> bottom of the shaft that hold the two metal disks.
> The spring and the corresponding adjustment knob
> supplies the tension on the thread. So, with the
> thread pulled down tight to the bottom of the area
> between the two metal disks, let go of the spool
> side of the thread and now just pull on the free
> end of the thread. Now, while you are pulling on
> the free end of the thread, turn the tension
> adjusting nut to tighten or loosen the spring and
> cause the thread tension to tighten or loosen
> accordingly.
>
> This identical thread tension device design is
> used in millions of sewing machines around the
> world every day and all of the clothing you wear
> was put together using sewing machines with this
> style thread tension devices.
>
> To start from the beginning, just loosen the
> adjusting nut all of the way. Then, slip the
> thread all of the way into the space between the
> slots and begin to pull on the thread. Continue
> to tighten the adjusting nut, until the tension is
> so great that you can no longer pull the thread
> through the device. Now, you will have developed
> a feel for the least amount of tension you can
> generate, up to the breaking point of the thread
> with the most tension you can generate.
>
> Finally, do some test wraps staring with loose
> tension, and then gradually tighten the tension,
> one turn at a time until you finally get to the
> tension that you like to see on your wraps. After
> you spend an hour or so on doing these tests, you
> will be better prepared to handle the tension
> variety that you will use in all of your rod
> building.
>
> ---------------
> I use essentially the same tension device for
> wrapping all of the rods that I have ever wrapped.
> But, always do the same thing. Every time I put
> on a new spool of thread on the machine, I always
> test the tension and adjust the tension
> accordingly. Every spool of thread can have a
> slightly different twist, a slightly different
> diameter which all affect the overall thread
> tension as it goes through the tension disks.
>
> ============
> p.s.
> On these tension disks, it is a good idea from
> time to time to clean them and to double check
> them to be sure that they have absolutely clean
> surfaces and that no spot on the surfaces of the
> tension disks have any irregularities, or rough
> spots. If you find even the slightest blemish,
> you can use auto fine polishing compound to insure
> that each surface is glass smooth with no
> defective spots at all. If, you do find that you
> have a defective tension disk that you can not
> polish smooth, then, scrap it and pick up a new
> tension device,
> A tension disk that catches at all on the thread
> will ruin a good wrap.
>
> -------------------------
> By the way, I essentially copied the construction
> of this thread stand that I have used for wrapping
> all of my rods over the years. I use the same
> tension device that you have on your wrapper.
>
> [www.rodbuilding.org]
> /photo/14484/title/thread-tensioner-using-simple-s
> pring-loaded-disks/cat/508
>
> With the wing nuts on the base of the arm, I can
> adjust the height of the arm and the tension
> device to position the thread to my liking, I
> generally like to have the thread coming from a
> location that is about 2 inches higher than the
> turning rod. I have tried having the thread path
> very low to very high. But, I find that the 20
> degree angle or so of the thread coming down to
> the rod work well for my particular needs. As you
> can see in this picture, the thread runs back to
> the arm, then up to the top of the arm and to the
> tension device, where the thread is pulled down to
> the shaft of the tension device as it goes out of
> the tension device to the rod.
>
> Best of luck in your building.


Thanks Roger!! You are correct, from reading your post it is evident that I did not understand how to properly set up the thread going through the tensioner correctly haha. That will be extremely helpful moving forward!

Now that you know how to use your thread tension system,I will add the following: For a truer black,use regular nylon thread. The choice is yours to use color preserver or not . It tends to work best without CP. Threads from most, if not all thread manufacturers that are designed to not need color preserver should be avoided. If you absolutely have to use the NCP thread, definitely avoid using CP to seal the thread. That,and using CP, are the big issue. I haven't noticed any particular epoxy finish being a culprit. Thus,the problem lies with those two factors. When I switched to black nylon without color preserver,my issue disappeared,as if by magic. When doing a black wrap over a lighter colored thread,especially nylon,I will coat that with several applications of color preserver before wrapping the black over it.

Zack email me at Seabear49@gmail.com for some info