Howdy gang, Haven't been around lately and as I'm building some new rods for my friends was just wondering if any new small micro guides have come out. Been using fuji titanium sic LS 3.5's for my runners on my baitcasters for years . Any suggestions on singlefoot 3.5's or smaller type guides around would be appreciated. I have sz five and sixes for strippers but need to get about 20 runners. It's been a while since I created something and was down in my buddies workshop yesterday making my first carbon fiber grip and grinding down two reelseats. kinda felt good

Check out Anglers Resource sponsor in left column for their corrosion control frames and Fazlite rings.

Depends on line size, if I recall correctly you can still get the original batson in 2mm. If you are looking to go larger than 12 lb you will want 2.5’s

Alps pmk mini in size 3z is as follows 1.90 mm ring - 0.165 inch height and 'kudos Batson' even give weight 0.003 ounce. Looks a little higher maybe similar height to Fuji ti fly guides. Also wondering does anyone know what are zirconium rings similar to.

Tips look good too. size 4 ring weight 0.008 oz and they also have a mini tip which looks smaller but alas weighs the same.

The Batson catalog describes zirconium as similar to sic while less brittle.

So the only 3.5 or smaller guides I can find are Fuji ti type l's sic. Fuji mk's aluminum oxide. Alps pmk zirconium. Or artus ring lock nanolite. So I guess I want to know which are the lightest ones.

Zirconium is not quite as hard as SIC, also not as brittle as mentioned. I've used them for years, have not had one groove yet. All braid. I think, like Alconite, that the rings are narrower, smaller section, than SIC, so look a little more elegant. Fuji now has a narrow SIC that looks very good. You might find a hardness chart of a number of materials on here if you search. I've seen the charts also on some supplier sites and catalogs.

Regarding weight the Alps catalog shows the weights of all their guides.

I have found that Alps and Fuji titanium frames are very tough, not easily bent. Not so for all brands.

When you get this small, the difference between stainless and titanium is near non-existant, like small parts of a grain in weight. A 3 mm guide is 1/6 the weight of a 6 mm guide, 15, 2.5 mm guides will fit on a dime without hanging over the edge, when you get this small the weight of the guide is not an issue.
I have quite a few spinning rods with 2 mm guides, use a lot of 3 mm guides on conventional rods, have used 4 mm guides on rods for decades with no problems, this is really nothing new.

So let me get this straight- zirconium alconite and nanolite rings are thinner than sic hardloy and aluminum oxide rings. with torzite being the thinnest.

Ring material isn't as important as you may think, if the line passes thru the guides it's all golden. In some instances, such as pitching, smaller is better.

The average 20# braided polyethylene line is 0.008 inches in diameter. There is no need for a running guide with an opening larger than .020 inches. Is there any reason for using a running guide with an outside diameter larger than 1/4 inch - more than 12X the inside diameter of the guide opening?

Gotta see the hole in order to thread the line through the guides! Sometimes the search for the smallest and lightest can get can get to be a little ridiculous, There are always trade offs that need to be made, and you will get to the point of disminishing returns.
Norm

It just seems to me that the fascination about using the smallest and tiniest guide that will let a line flow through is a bit extreme.

Why make life difficult? Why make one have to worry about whether a line will pass a knot? Why worry about whether you can even see the hole in the guide to thread a line through?

Use a guide that satisfies the needs of your client - or yourself if you are the rods user.

But in any event, build the rod using the components that work for you and your particular wishes and needs.

Yes, I know the argument about how much better a rod works if it is using size 2 running guides, rather than size 4 guides. But I really wonder if a person was blindfolded and used two identical rods, one built with size 2 running guides and one with size 4 running guides - if a person could really actually tell the difference in the rod and catching a fish.

It would be interesting sometime to have this test run, where a group of folks were put on boats blind folded with drivers who could see, and then given different rods with different sized guides to fish with blind folds on all day and see if they had been able to determine the rods that had the small guides and the rods that had the larger guides This would also be a good test to see how good these fishermen were when they could not see.

By the way, yes, a lot of blind folks are very very good fishermen.

Be safe

all my rods have 3.5 running guides except for two that have torzites which may even be lighter weight but are size 4's. Back when I built them the smalllest tip was a sz 6 ring and I happily fished them for years till sz 4 tips came along and I swapped them out. The guide industry seems to have settled on as 4 as the smallest standard size that's readily available. I want to try some size 3's so what are my options and where can I get them.

Robert
Batson, Kigan are two I can think of off the top of my head. Bingham can get both

I don't know anyone that uses 20# braid for flipping and pitching heavy cover. Even medium heavy cover for that matter. If they are, they're either using medium or lighter powered rods, or they set the hook like a ....... let me rephrase ...... they're not trying to move the fish on the hook set.

Sure 20# braid is hard to break on a dead pull, but shock it, and it's a completely different story. There are a plethora of reasons the majority of flipping and pitching enthusiasts use 50 - 65# braid, when flipping and pitching heavy cover. The number one reason being, you have to use braid that heavy, or you run the risk of snapping it on a hook set.

The majority of reasons for using 50 - 65# (or higher) braid all have to do with the larger diameter of lines that heavy.

I searched for fresh-water bass casting and spinning reels which can exert more than 20# of drag pressure. Not much luck. How many pounds of shock can a 15 pound bass generate with less than a one foot head start? I may need to up-reel to a salt-water big-game reel and up-line to 3 or 4 hundred yards of 50# braid (to fill up the reel spool).

I always thought a fish weighed nothing in the water, they have mass, but they are neautrally buoyant, just floating there. How would we ever get these monster fish in the hundreds of pounds ever get in the boat if we had to dead lift them like they were in the air. Great point Phil. Now those 50 lb. rocks and 150 lb. sunken trees we set the hook on, are another thing. LOL.

lol You guys are pulling my leg with this drag number stuff, right?

Phil, you're right, discounting the reels that one would use for throwing big swimbaits, you won't find any casting reels that are normally used for freshwater bass fishing, with a drag rating of 20#. As far as spinning reels go, you must not have looked very hard. Shimano alone has 8 different models of bass sized spinning reels with 20# or higher drag ratings. But that's neither here nor there.

I get the same chuckle when I see people quoting drag numbers for reels, that I get when I see them talking about how many inches of line a reel takes in for every revolution of the handle. Make a long cast and suddenly your reel that brings in 29" of line with a full spool, is only bringing in 24" of line with a half full spool, Put a half a spool of line on that reel with a 10# drag, and suddenly it has a 14# drag. How can that be? I know ..... it's magic!!!

And speaking of magic .... I have magic fishing reels. Magic in that they have self adjusting drags. If I want the drag to slip, all I have to do is point the rod directly at the object my line is connected to, and pull. Or let the object pull. Hopefully the object pulling, is a fish, but not always. Anyhow ..... If I want my drag to stop slipping, I just hold my rod at an angle to the aforementioned object. They're my magic reels ..... mama said they'd take me anywhere.

As far as that other stuff about breaking 20# braided line on even a 1 lb fish goes ..... All I know is that a long time ago some guy got famous by writing about how that kind of stuff would be possible. How do I know it made him famous, you ask?

They named a cookie after him ......