David Miller Wrote:
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They are the best bang for the $ out.

Also don’t mention American Tackle microwaves,
> Alps or any others when someone starts a post
> about Fuji guides, you will get harsh words when
> it should be open experiences and opinions.
> there.


Dave , a poster said on the first page that he loves microwaves but disagreed that they cast better than a Fuji KL-H setup , isn't that being open to experiences and opinions ? I have never seen harsh words used . As far as being the best bang for your buck , in most cases i would agree microwaves are exceptionally reasonable in cost except the surf casting sets , those are ridiculously expensive and the reason i scratched them off the list .

Summary:
Microwave guides work.
Cone based guide systems work.
K based guide systems work.

Big, little and in between guide systems work.

As the saying goes, pick your poison, step up to the table and use the guides of your choice for the rods that you build.

Every one of the guide systems go a fine job of catching fish. Every one of the correctly designed guide systems will cast a lure as far as you need it to be cast. Every one of the correctly designed guide systems will ease the wear on line and on the arms and shoulders of the person doing the fishing.

Sometimes one wants very big guides for a given application. Sometimes a person wants roller guides for a given application. Sometimes a person wants tiny tiny tiny tiny guides for a certain application. All of the systems work and work very well.

Just do the research, do the testing and then select the guide type and system that works for you for the particular rod that you are building for the particular application and particular fisherperson who will be using the rod.

In some cases, and extremely light weight tiny guide system is necessary. In some cases a much heavier guide set is necessary for a given application.

Just because you happen to like one guide system setup and utilization for a given rod blank and use does not make that system or setup the very best setup for every rod and every use.

Do the research, procure the items necessary to satisfy the needs, build the rod and enjoy or have the client enjoy the excellent rod that you have built for that purpose.

Good luck

Herb I think this post is great conversation with no harsh words, I was referring to other post about Fuji guides.

Hello, new to the forums, and only a few years experience in rod building.
I've built several ultra light and light weight spinning rods with both Microwave and conventional guides. I have 2 6' ultra light rods, one with Microwave and one with conventional (Fuji guides, I think). Each rod set up with a 1/4 ounce egg sinker, about a 3' leader and a small bait ball, the Microwave rod casts easily 15 feet further than the other one. The accuracy is better with the Microwave guides, as well, even in the wind.

When I build a rod for a friend/customer and they want to save money (rod for the grand kids, etc.), I'll use standard guides, but when I've got a request for a really nice rod that casts very well, I always opt for Microwave guides.

KLH is a piece of cake to set up, go to the Fuji catalog and select a group for what you are trying to do. Runners can be what you want. Not sure MW is best bang for the buck now that Fuji has their Fazlites out. But, as Roger states, they all work, all will make perfectly fine rods.

AT could sell a pile of guides if they offered 3 guide reduction train sets. For say...$20. (bring your own runners) Microwaves work very well and take the guesswork out of setup. And I mean very well. In taking it to the next level, Fuji wins out.

I'm with Michael. When MW first came out (not AT) I started using them and swore by them. When Fuji came out with KLH concept, I gave it a try. I see no advantage now of the MW over the Fuji system. My opinion only: Fuji.

To the OP... It was great talking to you the other day, feel free to call me anytime!

As you see from the last few posts... even the haters know they work as advertised.

* They are, in fact, the easiest guide system to set up
* No guessing with what guides to choose - they are all in the package
* Instructions included

_______________________________
God Bless, Don Morse

800-516-1750 ext. 1207 / don@americantackle.us

Rod Building..... It's What We Do.

We are 1100+ reads in on this thread and it has become pretty obvious that after 4 or 5 years things haven't changed much. Some people like MW and some people like KR Concept. MW is a good choice if you want to follow instructions and end up with a nice spinning rod that casts well. KR Concept is a good choice if you have earned your rod building degree from the School of Hard Knocks and know exactly what it feels like to hold a crappy spinning rod in your hands.

MW fans don't worry about line slap or bunching or power distribution or overchoking or stripper size based on line choices - or anything else. They mostly follow the enclosed instructions. But those details are exactly the things that some rod builders LIVE to understand, and they get very excited about the positive results they achieve from their studies. I think that's an important distinction in this debate and one that everyone needs to recognize. In the end, KR fans and MW fans are different types of rod builders.

Don, I hope you're not counting me as a hater. I think Microwaves are fine, I just hate short footed runners. There are many quality guides from several companies that make perfectly well performing rods.

I've never used a rod with Microwave guides, so I can't comment on how they perform versus a KR Concept guide train. The only reason I am commenting in this thread is because I'm seeing a lot of, best thing going, nothing better, best bang for the buck, and now the use of the word "hater"

I haven't seen anyone hating on the Microwave system. Every person that has touted the KR concept has said that the Microwave guides work, and work well. They have only stated that they like the versatility that the KR concept provides over the Microwave system. I have witnessed this type of spirited debate countless times on fishing related message boards, when a member asks a question concerning different types of fishing line. It's especially prevalent when someone that loves braided line, starts tossing around comments in the same vein as those examples I posted above. Their love for braided line is so entrenched, that they'll not consider that braid may have limitations. And in their world, it may not. But that's their world. Not someone else's world. And it certainly isn't the real world.

Where are the admissions that the Microwave system may have some short comings with different line types? It's been mentioned that the system was designed with braided line in mind, and that isn't hard to believe when you consider that the cast comparison video on American Tackle's website, shows both rods being used with braided line, How does the Microwave system perform with less supple lines. Specifically, how does it perform with fluorocarbon lines? And since this spirited conversation is basically a debate between the Microwave system, and the KR Concept, how does the Microwave system compare to the KR Concept when using said fluorocarbon line? I know how the KR Concept performs with fluorocarbon line. It performs outstanding.

Another thing I find interesting about the aforementioned video ...... why are they pitting the Microwave system, a fairly new concept in guide train thinking, against a rod set up with a cone of flight guide train, a concept older than dirt, in guide train thinking, and not a KR Concept guide train?

I'll give you my answer to that question ..... because it's marketing. And in marketing you pick an easy target, and go after it. It's kiinda like Ohio State playing Akron University in football. Everyone knows who is gonna win, the only thing left to contemplate is how bad the beat down will actually be.

Anyhow .... if there is any hating going on in this thread, it isn't hating on the Microwave system. It's hating on the lack of recognition that it may have some short comings.

I was referring to the Microwave Airwave guide set as the best bang for the buck. That is my own opinion that I am entitled to have and I share my opinion with no horse in the race. Unless Fuji has a KR guide set with chrome inserts for less than $15 that I don’t know of.

I recently tried some of the new fireline ultra 8 and forgot how they underrate their line and bought the 14lb. Put that stiff thick braid on a 3000 Shimano and had no issues casting through the airwaves. Yeah casting distance would be even better with thinner line but that is for any guide system.

David.yes, like all of us you're certainly entitled to your own opinion, and entitled to express it. Please understand I wasn't disparaging anyone's comments.If you felt I was, please accept my sincere apology, as it wasn't the case

Anyhow ....... if you're interested ......... you can do a KR concept guide train using Pac Bay Minima guides similar to the ones in an Airwave set, for under $10. My guess is it would handle that stiffer line better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2018 07:21PM by David Baylor.

No hard feelings here at all.


For inshore popping rod I really don’t need the 14lb fireline on there no matter the guide train,it is overkill with a true breaking strength over 30, the 10lb would be plenty strong going to a short flouro leader. I was very surprised though that the 14lb was casting as good as it does with the microwave guides but like everything we it has its optimum usage and limitations.

Man this is great. The spirit of debate and very entertaining without too much hate. Here is what we have so far: Both sets work, we need a little more variety on the MW set up and Fuji needs to come down on their prices. Well I think that about sums it up. Oh yea and... I will put whatever the client wants on his rod.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2018 01:09AM by Lance Schreckenbach.

I am not sure about the two "different types of rod builders", as I would assume all want to build the best rod they can.

It may seem easy to make two categories of builders - those who choose MWG’s with suggested guide spacing and those choosing a set of KR Concept guides with their suggested spacing.

But like I said, I think everyone wants to build the best rod they can, which means there are other guide options (and brands) out there for selection to build the best rod they can.

In fact American Tackle offers a lot of other guides for ANY theory, concept or style out there. However for this particular subject I believe the title of this post was “MicroWave Guide System”, which MW’s are a complete system that obviously a great many people appreciate and several gave their opinions.

But as to other theories, concepts and styles, there are many other guide options (and brands) sold separately of which American Tackle has a very BIG selection.

_______________________________
God Bless, Don Morse

800-516-1750 ext. 1207 / don@americantackle.us

Rod Building..... It's What We Do.

David Miller I'm not trying to start a fight here, but I'm curious as to why you would consider 14lb. Fireline Ultra 8 to be thick when it has the same dia. as 6lb. Trilene.

I should of stated it is thicker than 20lb Power Pro. The ultra 8 feels more stiff than regular fireline fused 4 strand, it may get more supple the more it’s used.

Since this post has turned into a braid discussion, check out the American made braids from American Tackle.


[americantackle.us]

[americantackle.us]

_______________________________
God Bless, Don Morse

800-516-1750 ext. 1207 / don@americantackle.us

Rod Building..... It's What We Do.

Thanks David