Plan to build a couple deep crank rods using RX6 FT905 blanks and the guide spacing provided from Batson (CB76MH). Budget components for reel seat and EVA grips in hopes to keep them each less than $100 each. Looking for some guidance on a light but dependable (KR concept) guide set for fluorocarbon lines, any recommendations? Thanks.

PS, only doing 3 builds this winter, doing more ice fishing and learning to airbrush cranks.

I would skip the concept system and spiral wrap them have built several with spiral wrap and customers love them
if you really have to use the kr concept you will find that you will need up wards of 10 or more guides to make it work with the blank flex lots of runners.
That is why I recommend the spiral wrap my 7-6 rods lay out for spiral comes out to 10 plus tip top and cast like a rocket most of the guys here use them not only for casting but tugging small yellow bird plainer boards.
but this is JM2C

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Geez, how do I get used to looking at it?

it looks funny at first but you get use to it and will love the way it preforms when fighting big fish it takes the left /right torque from your wrist and handle ya just got to try it something new that is really an improvement for casting style rods/reels

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

hi Charlie..since it,s telescopic, you can catch a few fish with the guides on top then rotate the guides to the bottom like a spiral rod, catch a few fish to see the difference, and there is a difference as Matthew just said..if you like it, all that,s needed is a bumper guide attached later..

He will also need to move the butt (stripper) guide 180,
and then add a "bumper" guide to make the transition.
We like the "turnover" wrap and use on all trolling/live bait rods.
It makes a huge difference when fighting a large fish,
or retrieving a hard pulling lure or a heavy weight.
However, there are some customers that just will not buy it,
want the traditional all on top,
but wrapped with the new "concept" guide sizing.

One way to try it is wrap 2 butt guides 180 from each other,
and add a bumper to one to make the turnover.
Do not put finish on those 3 guides and try it.
Because it is a "telescopic", it is easy to turn the working end of the rod 180.
This can also be tried on 2 pc rods.
Then simply remove whichever you do not like.
I have experimented and used just some CP to help hold the threads together
until it has been fished some.
Sometimes for several trips.
Then a permanent finish can be put to the one we like.
If NCP thread is used the color change is not an issue.
Use Black and it will not show either.
The area under the removed guides can be cleaned up easily.
We have used that method many times when working with new ideas on guide sets.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

i gotta get out more..on these type telescopic rods all i have ever seen is all the guides attached to the sliding tip section including the butt guide..but even if the butt guide is on the bottom section he can still rotate the tip section and bypass the butt guide running the line to the next guide just to test fish the simple spiral. No?

Thanks all. In fact I'm buying the blanks from Ron. Do you guys wrap the transition guide on the crank side of the reel? I want the rod to lay somewhat flat on the deck. Does the rotation matter? Instead of testing, I'll just commit.

(Do you guys wrap the transition guide on the crank side of the reel? I want the rod to lay somewhat flat on the deck. Does the rotation matter? Instead of testing, I'll just commit.)

some say yes some say no I my self do it the way it was initially designed a spiral starting at the center to the reel and then begin the rotation of the guides,
from the tip guide spacing 4 -8 -12 inches then 18 3/4 -26 1/2- 34 1/4 -41- and the last 48
rod specs extended 7'6 " lure wt. 1/4 -1 1/2 guide spacing was obtained with load test @ 35 lb. on a 45 degree angle
guide closest to reel I have found that if you start with at least a 12 you won't have line stacking issues I my self prefer to use a #16 for that followed by a #10 and then 3 #8 's and after that 3 #6 to the tip this is a lay out that I just finished with for a customer that fishes Lake Michigan from Marionette to Chicago so that is almost the entire western shore of the lake this is his 4 set of these he does multi species trout ,salmon,sm bass and walleyes.
he uses them with down riggers,yellow birds or just flat lining crank baits he also casts with the same rods. how he does the down riggers is he will flex the rod a lot less than a standard trolling rod.
Hope this helps have any more questions just ask one of us will have the correct answer or suggestion so they work right for you. Happy New year

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

So Matthew,
If I want to do a simple spiral; I'll use a dbl-ft #12, then a dbl-ft #10 (@90 degrees), then a dbl-ft #8 at 180 degrees, then a dbl-ft #7 followed by four sgl-ft #6's.
If I want a conventional wrap; I'll use all dbl-ft guides #12, then #10, then #8, then two sgl #7's followed by four sgl #6's. From tip: 3.5, 7.5, 12, 17, 23, 30, 37.5, 46, 55
Main purpose is throwing deep (1oz) cranks for bass. Man, I just don't know about a spiral wrap rod. Next up, the right guide set, fore grip or not.

Charlie, if you use single foot guides with the Forhan locking wrap it,s pretty much like using a double foot guide, and on my rods like this i use all BLAG#6s, nine of them plus tip, equal spaced at 5" to cover the sliding tip section which is only 46"..i notice on your conventional wrap set-up, the guide at 55" must be on the butt section not on the tip section with the other guides and that these measurements are made with the rod collapsed to get the last two guides so close.no?

charlie e mail me and I will try my best to get a pic of one of the rods and I will send it to you
I don't do the 180 -90 like I said I do it like the original design acid wrap a contagious spiral no sharp changes the 3 from the tip top are all in line the rest make the spiral

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Spiral wrapped rods work very well. I position the guides exactly as I would for a conventional rod with the guides on top. The first guide at 0 degrees, the second at 60 degrees, the third at 120 degrees and the rest at 180 degrees. I like the Fuji KR micro guide concept, with my first guide being either a KW10 or RV6 (if you want to use a titanium guide) then a KW5,5 followed by KB/KT 5 or 4.5 or 4 runners (3 KBs and the rest KTs) Nine guides will work well with a 7.5’ rod. If you do not want to do a spiral wrap then put all the guides on top, using the same guide sizes, but may need an extra runner or two. In either case I would place the stripper some where between 19” to 24” from the front of the reel this will depend on how long the telescoping butt section is. If you are not sure which way to go then tape on the guides in either the spiral or the conventional configuration and take the rod out and test cast it to see which set up you like. The KR concept is lighter than the NGC because you are using smaller running guides. This makes the rod more responsive with a crisper action, and in my opinion with longer and more accurate casts. It is a personal choice whether to go spiral or conventional. For fresh water they will both work great. Your personal preference is what makes a custom rod custom.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 09:14PM by Norman Miller.

Thanks Norm, always value your opinions.

Just wanted to mention, we use just 2 sizes of guides on a "spiral" wrapped (turnover) rod.
A butt (stripper) guide to accommodate the reel size and height,
and then the smaller running guides that will handle the line, knots, and conditions.
A 7' trolling rod would be something like a 2 ft sz 20 stripper, 3 sz 6 2ft for transition and first runner, then 1 ft low frame runners the rest of the way.
That works well for freshwater trolling and live bait rods using a line counter type level wind reel
Lower frame reels will usually use a smaller stripper, and maybe smaller transition and runners.
I like 2 ft for durability in some areas.
And 2 ft all the way to max the dependability.
Hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

Happy Holidays guys/gals! I have found rodbuilding.org the friendliest fishing forum!

hi Ron..i have three SC2 flip rods that i built and fished almost exclusivly for 10 to 15 years..i beat the you know what out of them..each has at least 9 BLAG#6 guides each spaced 5" to cover the 46" tip section...i used epoxy on the wraps which was pretty beat up but still no cracking at guide toe even with all the poking to free snags and using just the rod to pull the boat closer to get to the snag..i brutalized these rods but the main reason they kept going was that i used the Forhan locking wrap on every guide..it,s my opinion that any single foot guide attached this way is superior to a double foot guide. just from experience..

Another question about a telescopic build; should the butt end of top section have some type of plug in it?