Has anyone applied a couple coats of Permagloss over the final coat of epoxy? Did it turn out nice? My thought is it would add some hardness and UV protection. Also, is today's formulation of Permagloss the same as it was 10 years ago and if not is it any safer to use? I have done searches, but only find 7-10 year old topics about it being banned soon (7-10 years ago) and it obviously is still available. U-40s website has no additional information.

Search results mention it for repairing damaged epoxy. I am interested if someone used it from the initial build on top of the epoxy.

No, it won't add any UV protection - it has none. It was never "banned" and is the same product now that it was 20 years ago. Nothing changed other than the cap on the bottle it comes in which was changed in an attempt to make it less prone to curing in the bottle due to moisture ingress..

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Thanks Tom. I guess I read wrong, as I did a search and I thought there were some post about it offering UV protection. I know there are some liquid car waxes that offer UV protection, so I can always use that on the rods.

I have done it, so know it doesn't have problems like attacking the wrap epoxy. It's actually recommended by some for use over epoxy on carbon fiber grips, and it can, if the surface is very smooth, look good and glossy. But I don't think it has the same really high gloss level of wrap epoxy. If you can accept that, then it should be fine. I suggest you do a test wrap and see what you get.

I picked up a tip on this site a couple of years ago about storing Permagloss after the bottle has been opened. I can't remember who it was, but they suggested storing the bottle upside down, and to keep it in the refrigerator.

It's lower humidity in the refrigerator, and, if it were to start to cure in the bottle, it will start curing at the air space in the bottle. Storing the bottle bottom up, keeps the mouth of the bottle open. Sadly I didn't read that tip until I had experienced having it cure in the bottle.

As for the new caps working better? They seem to. I had about a 3 month old bottle that after opening, I had forgotten to store as described above. A couple of weeks ago I was top coating some carbon fiber sleeved grips and noticed the bottle on my rod building table in the upstairs of my house. Fearing the worst (it gets pretty hot up there) I opened the bottle, and other than a very small amount of crystallization around the mouth of the bottle, it showed no other signs of starting to cure in the bottle. It had been up there for about 2 months after I had opened it.

With that said, I still would store it with the bottle upside down, and in the refrigerator. Better safe than sorry.

The best way to store it is in a small metal paint can - hole punched in bottom with a screw eye for a stopper. You can keep it fresh this way for years at a time.

Generally when you top coat a carbon fiber grip with PermaGloss, the epoxy used to wet out and/or seal the skin has been mostly sanded away. Or at least it should be. Putting PermaGloss over a thick layer of epoxy doesn't really buy you anything and the epoxy is still going to yellow, which will look as if the PG has yellowed right along with it.

PG is used by some on thread wraps first, to act as a sealer, and then top coated with epoxy.

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Sanding the epoxy to the point of "mostly sanded away" runs the risk of exposing the fibers, which as far as I know, cannot be repaired effectively. So there really is enough epoxy left to "qualify" as putting PG over epoxy. In fact, if it is "mostly sanded away" but not totally sanded away, the whole grip has PG over epoxy, just like a wrap will be if epoxy is topped with PG. I wasn't advocating it, only informing of my experience of doing it with no problems caused.

The carbon fibers don't act like glass fibers. I routinely sand into them and there is no epoxy on top of any of those fibers in the grips I make. The epoxy only serves to act as a filler for voids in the skin fabric. I have been making them longer than anyone else on the planet and quickly learned the various pitfalls associated with the carbon skins. Sanding in to the skin, provided you don't go all the way through to the core, isn't an issue. Glass and/or kevlar skins are a different matter. If you sand into those fibers you'll have a sort of "fuzz" to deal with.

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Oh I sanded the grips smooth after top coating them with epoxy, and prior to finishing them with Permagloss. I didn't put the Permagloss on for UV protection, I put it on because its' surface is harder. I figure it will be less prone to scuffing.

As far as sanding into the carbon fiber goes, Tom is spot on. It doesn't fray at all. I imagine it would if you didn't have the fiber completely impregnated with epoxy, but if you do, it's no different than sanding any other solid material. About the only thing you'll notice from sanding it, (if you don't sand all the way through it) is that you can visibly sand out the weave pattern. And really, even if you don't top coat the grip with a coat of epoxy to make it smooth, you'd still be putting the PG over epoxy because the entire fiber sleeve is saturated, including the outside surface.

I actually coated a factory made CFX fighting but with PG because one of this site's members had mentioned liking the appearance of them finished that way. I let that piece dry just to see if I liked the way it looked and felt. I then decided to go with the smooth full gloss look, so I coated over the PGd grip with the same epoxy I used to laminate the sleeve to the foam core. I had zero bubbles in that coat of epoxy. I put the same epoxy on the non PG coated factory CFX rear grip. (its a split rear grip) It was at that point that I wished I had coated that grip with PG prior to applying the epoxy, because man did I have bubbles!

Anyhow ...... good or bad, I have epoxy over PG, with PG over that epoxy.

I guess I stand corrected, but cannot explain one of my first carbon fiber builds in which I got into the sleeve fiber and never could get the spot finished properly. But my point that PG over epoxy does not present a problem is still valid. And every time a person finishes a carbon fiber grip with PG, he is putting PG onto epoxy, as David states.

If you have a layer of epoxy between the PG and the carbon skin, then your grip will turn yellow/amber over time. I would suggest avoiding this if possible.

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Good point, will do.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
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> The best way to store it is in a small metal paint
> can - hole punched in bottom with a screw eye for
> a stopper. You can keep it fresh this way for
> years at a time.

>
Tom, happy holidays
Sorry but I am having a hard time visualizing what you mean.
Could you please explain what the screw eye is for?

Take a small half pint can and pour the PermaGloss into it. Then tap the lid on securely. Now take a small nail and punch a hole near the bottom edge of the can. Be ready to plug it with a screw eye as PG will start to pour out. A little is going to escape but it'll seal up pretty quick. Now to dispense PG, remove the screw eye and allow the PG to drop into a suitable application container. Put the screw eye back in and you're set.

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Tom I was thinking the same thing as far as the epoxy on the grips eventually yellowing. The thing is, it would take probably 10 coats or more of PG to get one of those fiber grips, nice and smooth. I say that because I actually put 2 coats of PG on the fighting butt I described earlier, and it wan't even close to smooth.

I will say that I put the coats on thin. To reduce the number of coats of PG I need to put on, how thick can you put PG on? On the grips I just finished top coating with PG I tried putting in pretty thick, but it's so thin that it spun off grip, and I only had the grip turning maybe 50 - 70 RPM.

I watched the YouTube video you made of you top coating a grip with Permagloss. What did you use to get that grip as smooth as it was prior to top coating it? Was it just multiple layers of PG that you sanded smooth, and then applied the PG over it?

Thank you for any response you may offer.

No, you use epoxy as a sealer and then sand it down to the fibers. As you observed, PG is too thin to work easily as a sealer. Now when used as a sealer, the only epoxy remaining will be in the fiber voids - none is left actually on top of the carbon skin. It's no different than using a sealer on wood - you sand it down to the wood and the only remaining sealer is in whatever voids where there that you were trying to fill. The amount of epoxy left in the skin would be absolutely minimal.

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Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take a small half pint can and pour the PermaGloss
> into it. Then tap the lid on securely. Now take a
> small nail and punch a hole near the bottom edge
> of the can. Be ready to plug it with a screw eye
> as PG will start to pour out. A little is going to
> escape but it'll seal up pretty quick. Now to
> dispense PG, remove the screw eye and allow the PG
> to drop into a suitable application container. Put
> the screw eye back in and you're set.
>
> ............

Ahhh, ok now I got it thank you!

I believe the can needs to be unlined, bare metal inside.

I just keep my bottles of PG in the fridge.

Chris