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blank specifications
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: December 07, 2017 10:29AM

Has any blank manufacturer or rod manufacturer provided customers with the breaking strength of their products? It wouldn't be hard for them to clamp down the rod's butt, increase the pull against the rod or blank's tip at a 45 degree angle until the rod or blank broke, and provide the buyer with that information. That fact would strongly influence my decision in purchasing a blank or rod, and the decision of a good percentage of other customers too. Anglers do consider breaking strength when buying lines or leaders and demand information more precise than 8 - 20 lbs.!

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 07, 2017 10:39AM

They don't at least as far as I'm aware of. They might have several reasons for not doing so, such as "This rod was labeled as being able to withstand 20 pounds of load but mine broke on a 2 pound fish. Must have been defective."

It would be nice information for many to have but doubtful you'll see it happen any time soon.

............

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (172.58.41.---)
Date: December 07, 2017 12:57PM

Lamiglas has vids available on YouTube showing just that.

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 07, 2017 03:28PM

If I tie a leader to the hitch and try to pull my Jeep up the driveway with a 2 weight fly rod, the Jeep is not going to move (at least not up the drive!) and the rod will not fail provided that I do not "high sticK" or otherwise stress the rod beyond about 90 degrees (which is your 45 degrees measured from the the butt section to the plane of the drive) - something else will fail first. I don't know about spin or bait cast, but I've yet to run across a fly rod blank that did not require force resulting in more than 90 degrees of bend to cause the blank to fail. So, while knowing the probable failure point in pounds of force at a degree of bend beyond 90 degrees would be an interesting data point, I doubt it would be of practical value as a fly fisherman would be hard pressed to accurately estimate the pounds of force being placed on the rod at any degree of bend while fighting a fish. However, a fly fisherman can and should continually and accurately determine the rod's bend. It might be an extended fight, but the rod will not fail if not bent beyond about 90 degrees.

Frankly, I'd rather have a lighter fly rod blank with a lesser than your suggested failure value than a heavier blank with a higher failure value.

On the other hand, I'm an old fuddy duddy, so maybe knowing the failure point as you suggest is important.

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: December 07, 2017 07:03PM

Just speculating. We get precious little concrete information when we buy a rod blank: length, of blank, weight of blank, color and cost. The rest is pretty much vague generality and hyperbole. Fishlines are rated by breaking strength, buyers demand and rely heavily upon this information, and for a multitude of reasons experienced anglers have had lines break at what they know was below their listed strength: nicked or damaged line, old, sun-degraded line, overhand knots in the bight of the line, poor knots, broken guides, etc. Anglers still insist upon publication of the rated test in pounds when buying lines, and apparently lawsuits against manufacturers of lines that failed have apparently been unsuccessful. I can see no practical reason why blank makers should not rate their blank's breaking strength in pounds, and lots of excellent reasons why blank buyers should demand publication of this information.

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: Terry Kirk (---.ks.ks.cox.net)
Date: December 07, 2017 07:03PM

If they told you a rod was rated to 5 pounds at 45 or 90 degrees would you have to send the fish that broke the rod in with the rod so they could verify it before replacing?

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: December 07, 2017 07:40PM

Terry - I don't see why. You can't get your money back when your fishing line breaks, no matter how many fish you return to the manufacturer! Same with hooks, leaders, swivels, and snaps.

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: December 09, 2017 09:40AM

Donald, spin and bait-cast are as you describe for fly. The only missing objective data that I would appreciate would be CCS data, but even that is so mis-used by us builders that some suppliers are reluctant to give it.

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: December 09, 2017 10:41AM

I built myself a 9wt. TFO - BVK fly rod several years ago and I love it. This rod seems to have acquired a reputation spread by word-of-mouth for breaking easily. These reporters may have high-sticked their BVK's or they may have transported them hanging over the tailgate of their pickup truck, bouncing up and down - there's no way to know. Relying on word-of mouth from strangers is a foolish way to condemn or buy rods, but planting rumors can be an effective way to increase your product sales by decreasing competitor's sales. The simple solution is to print how much weight your blank will dead lift at a less-than 45 degree angle, and you would not HAVE to pay any attention to this fact if you didn't want to.

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: December 10, 2017 08:48AM

Unless you're talking about IGFA rated fishing line, fishing line breaking strengths is the most abused rating system in fishing. In fact, there is more consistency in rod power nomenclature than there is in line break strength.

Pretty much every blank manufacture would term a blank rated for weights of 1/4 - 5/8 oz as medium powered. 1/4 - 3/4 oz as medium heavy, and so forth. That's not the case with fishing line break strength. It's not even close. Line manufacturer A's 20# test line may break at 20#, while line manufacturer B's 20# test line breaks at 24#. That's a 20% difference in rated strength, versus actual strength. Also, a fishing lines breaking strength is tested using a slow straight pull. Were you to shock the line as in a slack line hook set, or a backlash or line tangle during a cast, the measurements for breaking strength would be much different. I've broken 20# braid on a hook set like it wasn't even there, while the same hook set won't break nylon mono or fluorocarbon line. The same would apply to a rod blank. A dead pull is one thing. Shock the blank and one could see a totally different result

None of the above are mysteries to me. What is a mystery, is why do fishing line manufactures test the breaking strength of their product, when it's dry? While the breaking strength of the line we choose certainly isn't useless information, it clearly isn't based on real world situations. I mean who doesn't get their line wet, when fishing?

Laboratory tests do provide very useful information, but if that testing doesn't take into account real world situations, is it really as useful as we may think it is?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2017 11:15AM by David Baylor.

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Re: blank specifications
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: December 10, 2017 12:26PM

David: You make a good point about line "pound test". The "strongest #10 test line in the world"[??!] is that because it's really an #18 test line - but at least it's a measurable starting point. It may be most fishermen lie and like being lied to, but some prefer verifiable facts to flights of fancy. Many of us would like to know how much weight lifted by a blank at a 45 degree or less angle will break a blank - like to know this more than the rod has a "soulful action". People who prefer flights of fancy can still ignore matters of fact. The rest of us deserve something more than hype to make our decisions.

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