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Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: jon tobey (98.99.251.---)
Date: December 04, 2017 11:52AM

Please forgive me if this topic is discussed, dead, and buried, I searched this site here and using Google and still did not get an answer.
Do we still need to wrap female ferrules on fly rods these days? Seems like the manufacturers would've solved that by now. I'm asking in general, and specifically I'm building an MHX 5 weight at the moment, which is why I put Mudhole in the title.

Also, Mudhole if you are reading this, the person who drew the dinosaur on my last package has some serious skills. I would love a line of MH stickers based on package doodles. There is some genius there.

jontobey@yahoo.com
www.gointothelight.wordpress.com

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 12:24PM

Jon

Cannot think of a manufacturer that recommends or instructs that its blanks' ferrules not be reinforced with a wrap.

Frankly, even those who make a big deal about the strength of their ferrules and ferrule construction technique do suggest a reinforcing wrap is a good idea.

So, yes, for sleeve over and similar ferrules make a female ferrule reinforcing wrap in a length equal about 1.5 to 2.0 times the female ferrules diameter. For spigot ferrules remember to reinforce both the male and female.

Have fun with the wraps; add feathers for alignment markers, or maybe trim bands to indicate the section number.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: jon tobey (98.99.251.---)
Date: December 04, 2017 12:31PM

Thanks. I just try to reduce the wraps as much as possible as they really dampen the rod action. Same reason I use single foot guides. I was considering laying the feathers directly on the blank.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 04, 2017 02:28PM

Many manufacturers do not require you to wrap the ferrules on their blanks. Trouble is, few put whether there is or isn't such a requirement on their packaging. When in doubt, call the manufacturer and ask.

.............

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 02:32PM

They may not be required, but they are good insurance! It is especially important if ones does not fit the sections together tight and they work loose during a day casting.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: jon tobey (98.99.251.---)
Date: December 04, 2017 02:49PM

Tom,
I figured somebody from MH will chime in here. That's a great thing about this space.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 02:51PM

Jon,
I doubt that it would be possible to measure or feel any change in the performance of a multi piece rod by putting a 1/2 inch of wraps on the joints.

After all, there is a double wall thickness that that location, so what difference are a few wraps at that location make on the performance of a rod.

Good luck

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 03:30PM

i e-mailed modhole several months ago about whether a rod warranty was voided if i didn,t use a ferrile wrap and they said the warranty is still good..thare was no talk about a specific brand either way..

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: jon tobey (98.99.251.---)
Date: December 04, 2017 03:34PM

Your argument makes sense. But if you look at at rod like a vibrating spring and each wrap is like a little dampener, then I still feel that less is better. I'd love to spend some quality time in a lab with a high-speed camera. I know from experience that same blank single vs. double footed have different actions. Plus, you know, I'm intrinsically lazy and I don't want to be doing this out of tradition if there is no real engineering need for it.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 04, 2017 04:54PM

Any weight you add reduces a rod's speed. But at some point you have to look at the practical side of things. While a ferrule wrap will indeed slow a rod's speed, the amount of weight involved and the location of that weight makes any speed difference of little practical matter. You could always do your own test with a CCF comparison and find out for yourself.

.................

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: jon tobey (98.99.251.---)
Date: December 04, 2017 05:09PM

If I actually need it, I'll do it and take the speed trade off. I'm just curious if this is even a requirement with modern rods. Last thread I found on this was 2007 and a lot had changed in blank manufacturing since then. Maybe all rods are re-enforced by design now and I just never got the memo.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 05:17PM

Just did a quick but certainly not an exhaustive tour of 24 fly rod manufacturer and custom rod builder sites including but not limited to Orvis, TFO, Sage, Fenwick, Epic, etc., etc. Darned if I can find one marketing their rods without ferrule wraps. That does not prove the rods would fail without ferrule reinforcing wraps. But I sure makes this builder wonder why, in a very competitive space, someone does not market their factory rods or blanks without the ferrule wraps. Maybe it is just long held convention and marketing, and just maybe not.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 05:22PM

if you keep the wraps as light as possible and use 00 thread and a finish like PG or luma seal or Threadmaster1 it would add so little that you wouldn't have a notable difference in the rod.
If you use a weight thread and gob it up with a layer or 2 of epoxy finish then yes it will be noticed in the speed and how it casts.
you just have to reason it out and if your casting and your favorite rod suddenly splits at the Ferrell the extra insurance you took the time to do during the build pays off big dividends then as not doing it of other reasons
if you use 00 thread and a light finish your taking and adding .00 of a gram in weight to the rod.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: jon tobey (98.99.251.---)
Date: December 04, 2017 05:57PM

I cannot remember where, somewhere I saw a rod advertised with re-inforced ferrules.
Ah, found it. Anglers Roost. Go Johnny, go!
Also Epic and some others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2017 05:59PM by jon tobey.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 06:12PM

i actually don,t like thread wraps because of added weight that much..it,s because they make rods mainly fly rods look like candy canes to me..maybe that,s just me..lol. i don,t go out of the way to pretty up my rods but i don,t like to make them less pretty..i don,t use epoxy so that,s ugly enough.lol.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: jon tobey (98.99.251.---)
Date: December 04, 2017 06:18PM

For ferrule wraps I just match the blank with non CP thread and let them melt into the background.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 07:13PM

If you don't want to have a color wrap at the ferrule then you can use 2 lb clear mono line and coat it with PG or one of the others I mentioned and it is a clear wrap and you have to look closely to see it and you can add a feather decoration on the ferrule before you wrap it with the mono and it will show through .
or you can use silk that is even thinner than the 00 thread.
this is one of those subjects that is about splitting frog hairs.
if you convert grains to ounces if the weight you add with wrapping the ferrules is 50 grains that equals in ounces 0.114285714, a very little more than a 10 of an ounce.
there is way to much over thinking about weight and rod speed. just build it and fish it split the hairs on the fly's

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 07:30PM

if a manufacturer has re inforced a ferrule i really don,t think there is any thing within reason that i can do to improve on that..

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 04, 2017 07:36PM

There was a list of which blanks require them and which don't in the RodMaker article on Ferrules. I'd have to go back and look up which issue it was in.

.........

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Re: Wrapping Female Ferrules - Specifically Mudhole
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 04, 2017 07:53PM

as I see it the blanks that have reinforced ferrules have a bulge where the male goes in to the female part of the blank and the ones that aren't reinforced do not have that just smooth to the end.
that tell me that the MFG added strength to the female ferrule part of the tip and there would be no need to reinforce it with another wrap it would only be a decoration at best and added weight .
just thinking about the differences in how different blanks from different mfg's

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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