Howdy peoples! I have a couple of questions concerning Minima guides,

First a bit of history. I've only built two spinning rods, I used the KR Concept GPS to tell me the the size and type of guides to use. I absolutely love the way the rods I built using the KR Concept, perform. They cast beautifully. With that said, I looked at a friends rod today and it had Titanium colored Minima guides on it. I really liked the looks of the guides, their color would go perfectly on a build I'm ready to start, that has titanium colored trim pieces. I have read some threads on this site in the past that mention using Minima match guides in place of Fuji KL-H guides for a KR Concept type guide train.

My first question is ..... is it as simple as that? Can I just substitute Minima Match guides in the same size as the Fuji KL-H guides the KR GPS calls for, and place them in the same positions the KR GPS calls them out at?

There is a 3.8 mm difference in height of the stripper guide, and a 3.2 mm difference in height of the first reduction train guide (second guide from the reel) the heights of the next guide in line are the same, although in the Fuji it calls for a 5.5 ring, and the Minima guide would be a 5. (no ceramic ring though) Would these differences cause a noticeable difference in casting performance?

My second question is ...... what Minima guides would I use for my choke guide and running guides? If I were to use a Minima 4L guide for my choke guide it would be .4 mm taller than the Fuji KB 5.5 that I would use as the choke guide. I'm thinking both the height and the ring size of the Minima could present a problem. Is my thinking at least close to being correct? And what Minima guides would I use as running guides? I already have the Fuji guides to build the rod, and my running guides are single foot 4.5 BLAGs. I don't see that type of guide in the Minima line up. I'm assuming just use the 4L match guides as running guides?

I love the Fuji guides, but to get them in a Titanium color is quite a bit more costly.

Any information of advice you kind people can provide will be much appreciated.

And Happy Thanksgiving !!!

Pac Bay Model F guides are what you want.

I also like and use the Fuji KR concept guides a lot, but I have also built a bunch of light spinning rods using the Minima4 match(M) guides coupled with the Minima4 fly (F) guides in a KR setup. Like the Minima4s better than the Minima3s. Sizes and layout are exactly the same as with the Fuji KR guides. The height of M guides are very close to those of the Fuji KLH guides, and the slight difference in height is of very little concern. If you want to compensate for this slight height difference just push the stripper a little further out, but it is not necessary. Depending on the reel size and the type and size of your line, you can use the 16M, 8M, and 5M or 20M, 10M, and 5M (or 6M) for the reduction train, and 5F or 4wF or even 3wF guides for runners. I normally use a 2500 or 3000 size reel with braid and use the 20M reduction train and 4wF guides for runners. This set up gives you an extremely light guide train, that really casts and performs exceptionally well. I have also coupled the Minima4 M reduction guides with the REC micro recoil guides as runners. This also works very well but much more expensive, and there is not that much, if any, of a weight savings. I should also note that the new Fuji corrosion control KR guides come in both a CC (frosted silver) or BC (gunmetal gray) finish that may or may not match your titanium colored trim. I hope this helps.
Norm

Spencer, thanks for the response. My problem was (I say "was" because I figured it out lol) that I was looking under spinning guides on Mud Hole's website, and the F guides in that section all had ceramic rings. When I looked under the Pac Bay brand setting, the Minima F guides were there.

Norman, thank you for your response. No offense meant to you Spencer, but I was kind of hoping for, and really, counting on Norman to respond because I know he likes the Minima guides and that he has written about using the KR layout with the Minima match guides.

Norman, I am happy to read your response about being able to just plug in the match frame Minimas in place of the KL-H Fuji's. I know I should really learn more about spinning guide layouts, it's just that the rods I built using the KR GPS cast so beautifully, that I rely on it, instead of doing some experimenting on my own. I'll have to remedy that some day.

Now as far as the Minima 4's? My first question, and this may be a deal breaker right off the bat .... In the description for the Minima F guides, it states that the 3W and 4W have a wider foot. Is the foot of the 3w and 4w Minima F guides the same width as a Fuji KB guide? If so, then I won't be able to use them. The foot on a #5 Fuji KB measures .0925 at its widest point. The blank I am building doesn't reach that width until 7" from the very tip of the blank. The KT 4.5's that I already have for the build will be fine, but unless I file the width of the foot of the guide down, I couldn't be comfortable using a guide with a foot the width of a KB until I was at least 10" away from the tip of the blank.

I guess I could file down the width of 2 or 3 of the Minima 4Ws if need be. Kinda hope I wouldn't have to though. How easy does Titanium file? lol

Anyhow ........ Where can I get Minima 4 guides? Mud Hole only sells the 3's. Utmost has 4's, but not in the colors I am looking for. And neither Get Bit nor Jann's Netcraft sell Minima guides. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to go with the 4's because they're double swagged. I'm looking to use the Minima's in a titanium frame with hard chrome ring.

Also, I noticed the 2 new frame colors you mentioned being offered in the Fuji guides, but there are no pictures on Mud Hole's web site that shows them. As far as them possibly matching my trim pieces ..... if you're familiar with Alps' Tich color, that is the color of the of the trim pieces I'm using. I have one of the trim rings that go between the fighting butt and the butt cap. And 2 of the TRS trim rings for spinning reel seats. One on each end of the seat. Mud Hole's Ti Chrome winding checks do not match the Alps color.

Another question for you if I may? What tip top do you use? An FM?

Once again I appreciate your guys responses very much. I've read from a few people that really like the Minimas, so I have little doubt that the rod will perform well. I'd like to get a set and see if I like them too.

David, thanks for your confidence in me. First let me say that if the Minima guide has a different color frame from the insert it is a Minima3. If the frame and insert are the same color they are Minima4s. So the Titanium Tiblack, Tiblack, Tibronze, and polished hard chrome guides are all Minima4s. All the rest are Minima3s, including the titanium frame hard chrome insert. Sorry about that. Mudhole hole sells both the 3s and 4s but do not differentiate between them, however the model item number does. A few years back PacBay stopped differentiating them as 3s or 4s in their advertising, it think this was due to the confusion it caused. There is nothing wrong with the Minima3s, but their inserts are not quite as secure as the Minima 4s. The Minima3s are fully swagged on one side and partially swagged on the other. I have used both the titanium frame hard chrome insert 3s and the SS frame hard chrome insert 4s and they look very similar to each other, just a slight difference in color. I actually use a lot of stainless hard chrome 4s and they are not only inexpensive but work great. They have been used in both fresh and saltwater and so far have held up well with no problems with corrosion or grooving. They are inexpensive enough you could get a set of each to see how you like them.
As far as the Minima 4wF and 3wF are concerned, the foot is a wider than normal, similar to the Fuji KBs which help prevent pull outs. If you want you can easily trim the feet of the guides close to the tiptop by filing them. It is easy to do. I normally leave them as they are, and have used them on ultra light rods having a size 4 tiptop with no problems. I do use the Minima FM micro tiptops. The thing about the Minima guides are their lightnesss, the entire set of Minima guides weigh almost the same as the Fuji KLH stripper alone. It almost feels like their are no guides on the rod.
I have Fuji KR guides in both of the new finishes, and they look good. The BC finish is sort of a matte grey similar to the Fuji Sic guides. The CC finish is a matte silver which has a sand blasted looked. Could not find a good picture of these guides to show you. I will take a look at the Alps Tich trim parts and get back to you with how they match. Hope this helps.
Norm

Took a look at the Alps titanium chrome trim parts and the color seems more of a match to the Minima4 titanium tiblack and tiblack frames, rather than the titanium hard chrome Minima3s. [alpsforecast.com]
The Alps trim parts appear quite dark. I have the both Minima Titanium Tiblack, and Tiblack guides in hand as well as the new Fuji KR CC and BC guides. I can send you a picture of these by email if you wish. Let me know.
Norm

Norman, thank you very much for your recent responses. They are much appreciated. And Norman, I consider you a trusted member of this site, and when it comes to the Minima guides, you clearly know them quite well. So IMO I'd be silly not to have confidence in your recommendations and the information you provide. Thanks to you, I now see the differentiation between the 3s and 4s on Mud Hole's web site. Pick a size and color and wallah .... there it is.

As far as the color of the Alps titanium trim parts go, going by the pictures on various web sites, including the Alps site that you linked here, it is easy to see how one would think it's a very dark color. In reality it is not as dark as the pictures would lead you to believe. It's a much lighter color. If I were to pick a picture that best represents the Alps Ti Chrome color, it would be the picture of the Forecast AWC winding check, in the Alps/Forecast catalog link you posted in your last response.

I really do appreciate suppliers posting pictures of their components, but pictures sure can be deceiving at times.

Be that as it may ......were I to go with the Minima 4''s I'd most likely (again based on photos) go with the polished SS316L color. It appears to have a slight grey cast to it. Were I to go with Minima 3s, I'd go with the titanium frame with the hard chrome ring. I'm also glad to hear that filing down the width of the guide foot, if needed, would be as I suspected, and be pretty easy to do. As the Minima 4's are so inexpensive I think I'll order both the 3's and the 4's and go from there. If I decide to go with the Fuji guides I already have I'll have a couple of pairs of Minimas to choose from for my next spinning rod build. And if I go with one of the Minima sets, I'll have Fuji's and Minima's

Norman, thank you once again for your responses, they are very much appreciated. Without them I'd still be scratching my head about these Minima guides.

Thanks again Norman! Thanks again Spencer!

Now off to do some ordering!!!

David the Minima4 polished ss316 hard chrome guides are brand new. I ordered some from Mudhole back on Oct. 6 and they are still on back order. not sure if its a supplier problem or not. so I do not know what they look like. Just a warning they may not be readily available. The regular Minima4 chrome chrome guides do have a matte silver finish.
Norm

Norman, thank you for that information about the ss316 Minima 4s. You sir are the man!!!

I haven't placed my order yet because I'm considering yet another guide choice for this build. One thing I did notice when selecting the SS316 Minimas that it says "usually ships in 3 to 5 business days" Seems that's more than a bit of a stretch, considering you have been waiting for them for over a month.

The other guide choice I mentioned considering comes after doing a search about Minima guides. I know you and others have said the Minima 3s are fine, but that you personally like the 4s better. In my search I found more than a few people that had problems with the Minima 3s. Either cosmetically, or in actual function. Admittedly the majority of those posts were from a couple of years ago, but some of them are very recent. At the same time there were many positive posts concerning the Minima 3s. I found zero negative comments about the Minima 4s.

With that said I'm wavering a bit on the Minima 3s. As a result, I am still considering the Pac Bay match and F type guides, but with titanium frames and Zirconia rings. I know they wouldn't be as light as the Minima guides, but they may be lighter than the Fuji guides I already have. And while I know the rings in the Minimas will be fine, I've never fished a rod (other than a cheap O fly rod) that didn't have ceramic rings. One of those hold habits dying hard kind of thing. At a little over $50 for guides and tip top, it's a deal that is hard to beat for titanium framed guides.

More than twice the cost of the Minima 4's, without the question of availability. Do II have time to wait ..... sure I do. Our water will be freezing soon. But I've already started top coating the CFX grips I have for the build. BTW, I went with something you said and just coated them with two coats of Permagloss. It's a very nice look and feel, the problem is I went ahead and top coated one of the CFX grips I messed up, with a coat of LS Supreme. Man it really looks sweet, so that is going to be the route I'm going to go. That and the grips will go beautifully with the woven carbon insert on the Forecast skeleton reel seat I'm using for the build. So I'm kind of anxious to get the build done so I can gaze longingly at it throughout the winter months. lol

That and as I'm building a light powered drop shot rod, I'm thinking I could hit a couple of the near by rivers for some steelhead, with it. Be a nice test for the rod.

Anyhow ...... with the questionable time frame for receiving the SS316 Minima guides, I'm on hold as far as ordering parts. But I can tell ya, it isn't going to last much longer. I want to get building!!! lol

Thanks again Norman. You da man!

Norm is my go to guy these days! I got on in the works based on his advice. (KR clone) You might wanna stick with mimima 4's



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 09:18PM by Lynn Behler.

Hey there Lynn ...... and yeah, Norman has got it goin on. His advice is very comforting. Especially when it comes to the Minima guides.

And I'm still going to get a set of the Minima 4's. I plan on giving Mud Hole a call later today and ask them about the Minima 4s availability. Hopefully they aren't too far out. Even if they are, I'll still go ahead and order them along with a set of the same style of Pac Bay guides, with the ceramic rings.

One thing I've noticed in the past, and during these recent guide searches I've been doing, is manufacturers will offer guides with certain frame and ring material combinations, but they don't offer tip tops to match all of the different combinations they have in guides. To me that's troubling, and I would think it would be troubling to other builders as well.

It just doesn't make sense to me. Oh well ........ it is what it is.

I'll post what I find out from Mud Hole about the availability of the Minima 4's in the SS316L color. Hopefully for Norman's sake they won't be too far out and he won't have to wait much longer. I know I'd me more than a little disturbed having to wait that long. Especially considering what is posted on their web site about them normally shipping in 3 - 5 business days.

The problem with getting matching tiptops for titanium guides is that titanium does not weld very well so making titanium tubes and welding a titanium frame to it is very difficult and to do it right is very expensive. So for the most part,matching tip tops for titanium guides have a stainless tube. Tip tops are the easiest thing to replace on a rod so it usually is not a big deal.
I probably need to call Mudhole again to see when my back ordered Minima4 SS316 guides will become available. Like I said they are brand new and I am sure there is some sort of distribution problem. A set of the regular hard chrome Minima4 guides is less than $10, the SS316 guides are a little more than $10, both great buys! A set of the TiBlack guides is about $35, the Titanium TIBlack is about $57. A set of the titanium PacBay M and FX guides with Zirconia insert is about $38. Are these higher cost alternatives worth the extra price? I personal do not think so, and I have used them all. So far the chrome Minima4s have held up just as well as the others with absolutely no problems. The ceramic insert titanium guides weigh a lot more. The titanium tiblacks weigh a little less but not by much. A whole set of the chrome Minima4s weighs less than a single KLH20, and KR guide set ups are pretty light when compared to other types of ceramic guides. Like I said before when you use the Minima guides it is like there are no guides on the rod, they are so light it’s unreal, and make light action rods very responsive. I still use Fuji KR guides on heavier action rods.
Norm

Norman, thank you again for your response. As always, it is greatly appreciated.

I get it on why tip tops with titanium tubes are difficult to produce. My thinking when I mentioned manufacturers not making matching color tip tops for all of the guides they offer is, they put PVD coatings on ceramic rings and other tip top frames ....... why couldn't they do it on all of them so they match any guide they offer? It makes no sense to me. Be that as it may ....

I'm with you on the weight of the Minima 4' being a major plus. Especially for the build I'm referencing.

As I said earlier, I'm building a light drop shot rod that will be built on a North Fork Composites IM DS6107 blank. It's rated for 1/8 - 3/8 oz baits,, with an extra fast action. A month or so ago I posted a thread with my impressions of the 2 NFC blanks I'll be building on. In that thread I mentioned how light the tip of the 6107 blank is, so the lighter the running guides, the better. And I'm really intrigued by your statements of it being almost like there are no guides on the rod when using the Minima 4s.

Based on our exchanges in this thread, I've decided to go with Minima 4s. I'll be ordering a set of the 4's in the SS316L frame, and a set in the TiBlack. My reason for going with the TIBlack is strictly based on frame color. I want to try a couple of different thread and guide color combinations, and go with the one I like best.

As an update to my saying I was going to give Mud Hole a call as to the availability of the Minima 4's in the SS316L frame. Norman, I didn't mention your name but I did mention that a member of this site said they ordered some of the SS316s back in October, and still hasn't received them. I can't remember the guys name, but he said he shows no open back orders for Minima 4s in the SS316L frame. You may want to give them a call, as there may be a possibility they lost your order?

I mentioned to the man that their web site states "usually ships in 3 - 5 business days" and he told me that they do not stock the item and that if Pac Bay has them in stock, they ship in that time frame. He went on to say that if Pac Bay DOESN'T have them in stock it could be weeks, or months. My first thought was to give Carol at Utmost a call (awesome lady) and see what she can find out. They don't offer the SS316L on their web site, but I have had her check to see if they can get other items they don't list, and she has told me they can.

Utmost is just down the street from Pac Bay, so I'll be giving Carol a call. It will be nice to hear her voice.

I'll post my results once I talk to her.

I just checked my Mudhole order history and that particular order is still pending, so I really do need to call them. If they still do not have them I may cancel the order and check with Utmost. The TiBlack guides do look good, in fact you can not tell them apart from the titanium tiblack frames. Since PVD coatings are relatively expensive it is one of reasons the Tiblack guides are more expensive, but this PVD coating does add some extra hardness and corrosion resistance. I made a spinning rod for a friend of mine using the Minima4 M and F guides, he liked that rod so much he brought me every spinning rod he owned and had me strip them down and replace the guides with the Minima4s, even those he used in saltwater for speckled trout and red fish. He could not believe how their lightness completely changed the overall feel and performance of the rods. I did this a couple of years back for him and he has had no problems with them at all. He is now having me change out his casting rods.
Norm