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Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Hitena USA (47.185.144.---)
Date: November 12, 2017 12:05AM

Hi everybody,

This is Gabriel of Hitena.

Stretch is a very important property of a wrapping thread. Without it, there is theoretically no chance for restoring force to kick in to hold the guide rings. Both stretch and restoration is equally important to generate the holding power against guide rings. This is the reason why we try to maintain consistent thread tension during rod wrapping. To hold the guide rings properly, stretch is a necessary condition and the first physical movement that has to happen to exert an elastic force which is the ultimate task of wrapping thread. It can be said that holding power is proportional to the elasticity of wrapping thread. No stretch means no holding (elastic) force. Elasticity of wrapping thread is indispensable to the construction of sturdy rods. This is the reason why Hitena put elasticity very high when we developed STWRAP. Nylon naturally has more elasticity than polyester but cost is expensive. Of course, not all the nylons are produced the same. If your thread says nylon but it's not that elastic, then there should be some reason for that.

I have a video that shows STWRAP's elasticity. It stretches and completely restores back without permanent elongation. Shown on the video is D thread. E stretches more and C stretches less, and so on.

[youtu.be]

If you want to see our Fly Tying Thread that stretches even more than wrapping thread, pls click below. By the way, it's just a prototype sample - not a finished product. It's UV coated and will be on sale before the end of the year.
Thanks.

[youtu.be]

Gabriel Hwang
Hitena USA LLC
gabriel@hitenausa.com
[www.hitenausa.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2017 12:07AM by Hitena USA.

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.100.---)
Date: November 12, 2017 01:40AM

Was thrown off for a second by 'Stretch is necessary to hold the guide RINGS' comment because i kept thinking of the guides foot but i see that you meant the guide as a whole. Interesting that the thread returns fully to it's previous state and doesn't stay stretched after it is stretched initially .

I don't know of any thread that is capable of doing that .

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: November 12, 2017 11:18AM

Excessive thread elasticity may not be a good thing for wrapping guides. The thread returns its original length only after the tension is released, but when wrapping guides one end is fixed and the thread is stretched and is fixed at the other end, therefore the thread can not return to its original state and is in a constant state of tension..

I have read in past posts that too much tension on a thread wrap can be detrimental to the blank. The other side of the coin is if the thread is too elastic it may not properly secure the guide to the blank.

Since this thread is new the best thing to do is try it, over time the the thread will prove itself or not.

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: November 12, 2017 12:19PM

Once the wrap is completed and coated the thread will not stretch any further than the epoxy, permagloss, or varnish will allow, no matter what type of thread is used.

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Hitena USA (---.pools.spcsdns.net)
Date: November 12, 2017 01:32PM

Hi John and Phil,

Both of you have good points. Wrapping thread has to be stretchable and elastic but should not stretch forever. We cannot use rubber band which is much more stretchable but cannot provide enough elastic force to hold. Also, we cannot use wire in place of thread because it is non-stretchable and cannot generate any elastic force though wire itself is much stronger than anything else for this purpose. This is where science comes into play. Stretchable up to the point where tensile strength is still maintained and strongest elastic force is generated is the optimum for a wrapping thread.

Once a well designed stretchable thread is provided to builders, it’s up to them how much tension they put in there. It really depends on the rod type, blank materials, ... etc. If not stretchable like wire, it doesn’t give any chance for builders to decide how much tension to put in.

Epoxy has its purpose for the task but still majority of holding power comes from elasticity of thread even after epoxy is hardened. Epoxy itself cannot hold the ring foots without thread’s elastic force.

All in all, a stretchable thread with maximum tensile strength and elastic force (I don’t mean a force that breaks blanks in a few wraps which is not possible in normal threads) is the best to have and it is the builder who decide how much tension they will put in there.

Thanks.

Gabriel Hwang
Hitena USA LLC
gabriel@hitenausa.com
[www.hitenausa.com]

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.100.---)
Date: November 12, 2017 03:02PM

John DeMartini Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excessive thread elasticity may not be a good
> thing for wrapping guides. The thread returns its
> original length only after the tension is
> released, but when wrapping guides one end is
> fixed and the thread is stretched and is fixed at
> the other end, therefore the thread can not return
> to its original state and is in a constant state
> of tension..
>
> I have read in past posts that too much tension on
> a thread wrap can be detrimental to the blank. The
> other side of the coin is if the thread is too
> elastic it may not properly secure the guide to
> the blank.
>
> Since this thread is new the best thing to do is
> try it, over time the the thread will prove itself
> or not.



Having a constant state of tension on the thread is what i want , the key is to wrap with tension that is neither overly tight nor overly loose . I cannot see any thread being so overly elastic that it will be ineffective at holding the guide to the blank , you would have to wrap with virtually no tension at all for that to happen. An elastic thread will make it much easier for people to wrap with tension however .

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: November 12, 2017 04:26PM

another solution looking for a problem..maybe this thread is more compatible with graphite guide frames..lol.

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Hitena USA (47.185.184.---)
Date: November 12, 2017 04:49PM

Over-elastic -> rubber band, non-elastic -> wire. We need something in between. I guess this was one of the reasons why we started using thread for guide wrapping originally.

Gabriel Hwang
Hitena USA LLC
gabriel@hitenausa.com
[www.hitenausa.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2017 04:51PM by Hitena USA.

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 12, 2017 05:48PM

Gabriel, great thread (pun intended)! Good stretch, is an important characteristic of wrapping threads. Cannot wait to give yours a try.

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Hitena USA (47.185.184.---)
Date: November 12, 2017 09:06PM

Hi Phil,

Samples arrived in the States and on the way to our warehouse. We'll ship them as soon as we get so everybody can receive hopefully before Thanksgiving week.

Let me share some feedback we got from best rod building shops in Japan. It is purely from builder's standpoint,
- Consistent tension is maintained due to the elasticity, holding tightly on the rod
- Wrapping process is much easier with each wrap aligning correctly in parallel next to threads without overriding
- Hiding buds after wrapping is a snap with mild pull-left applied upon razor cut - if not, soft finger tip touch makes it happen
- When applying epoxy, it doesn't drip and spreads nicely at 6 rpm motor

I'm often asked if STWRAP is better than Gudebrod's. The answer is absolutely yes. If not, we wouldn't have decided to sell this thread as standalone product. However, the one who judges is not me, you.
Thanks.

Gabriel Hwang
Hitena USA LLC
gabriel@hitenausa.com
[www.hitenausa.com]

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Dongsu Kang (110.11.235.---)
Date: November 13, 2017 10:58AM

In what specific points is your product better than Gudebrod's? How many colors can you supply? I've been living in Japan for several years but never heard of your presence in the market. Do you have an office in Japan? If so, please advise homepage address. Btw, when I visited the website of Hitena Korea, I saw all Hitena products are manufactured by Texland and Nexco. Then, Texland is a manufacturer and Hitena Korea / Hitena USA is a distributor? Somewhat confusing me ... Also, I don't see STWRAP on the website of Hitena Korea. So there is no way for me to buy it in Asia?

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 13, 2017 11:10AM

Just for the record, Gudebrod has been out of practical business for nearly a decade.
..........

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Hitena USA (---.dllstx.fios.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 13, 2017 12:16PM

Hi Dongsu,

I'm not sure if this is appropriate for this thread (no pun intended! lol) but I'll answer to your question since you asked. Our Japanese office is in Nagoya Province. When you see a Hitena products in Asia, you should find their address on the package. If you still need it, just send me a mail. I'll let you know. It's unfortunate that you didn't hear our Airbraid main line, Devil line, Tinsel line, Marine Assist line, Ocean Assist line, ....... etc in Japan yet. Those are all Hitena's brand. Texland & Nexko is just one of our factories while HItena Japan, Korea, USA are marketing entities in each country. Hitena Korea is not likely to sell wrapping thread because rod building market is too small in Korea. Apart from that, you cannot see STWRAP even in US homepage now coz we are not officially selling it yet. If you are in Asia, however, I think you should be able to buy it from Japan sometime later. We are already selling STWRAP to rod building shops in Japan but we didn't start selling to consumers in Japan yet.

I would say STWRAP is better than Gudeb in almost every aspects especially for tensile strength, bleaching over time, elasticity, ease of wrapping,... and so on. As I posted in the first place, we have black color only to start with at the moment. I suggest you to try our STWRAP sample. I'll send you if you are in the States. You should be more convinced once you have tried it yourself.

If you still have question, pls send me a mail or ring me at 469 222 8824 anytime.
Thanks.

Gabriel Hwang
Hitena USA LLC
gabriel@hitenausa.com
[www.hitenausa.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2017 12:21PM by Hitena USA.

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Hitena USA (---.dllstx.fios.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 13, 2017 12:31PM

Apart from the post above, I was thinking I'll need to post a thread explaining about Hitena since we are quite new to US market. I'll do that sometime soon.
Thanks.

Gabriel Hwang
Hitena USA LLC
gabriel@hitenausa.com
[www.hitenausa.com]

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Hitena USA (---.dllstx.fios.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 13, 2017 01:04PM

Apart from the post above, I was thinking I'll need to post a thread explaining about Hitena since we are quite new to US market. I'll do that sometime soon.
Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2017 07:00PM by Hitena USA.

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: November 13, 2017 11:58PM

Gabriel,
I appreciate the post, but I just wonder why you made the post.

Yes, I agree that good rod wrapping thread is better if it has some stretch. Hence the preference for nylon thread - with some stretch, but not poly thread - which has very little stretch.

But, nice to hear from you and enjoy.

Take care

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 14, 2017 08:10AM

He made the post in order to introduce his company's new line of rod wrapping threads.

..........

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: November 14, 2017 11:24AM

i wish i could use wire to wrap guides but all my rods would snap because wire does not allow the rod to flex properly so we have to use thread with just enough stretch to allow the rod to function and not break..too much stretch allows for guide movement..guide movement is a big no no..

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Re: Why is elasticity so important for wrapping thread?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 14, 2017 12:37PM

Wrapping tension is cumulative over many dozens of winds. The thread isn't going to stretch that much - not enough that normal wrapping tension wouldn't be enough to hold the guide in place.

.............

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