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blank strength
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 10:39AM

Do any blank manufacturers reveal the approximate amount of weight their blank will lift before it shatters? In big-game rods this is a consideration. It makes little sense to use a 20# leader if the blank will shatter under 15# of tension. It makes sense for the weakest connection between angler and fish, the "fuse" as it were, to be something other than the rod.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 10:48AM

Phil,
I don't know if the manufacturers publish the data, but I have seen videos of various manufacturers bending their blanks until they break. So, I would expect that at least the larger manufacturers have the data you ask.

Take care

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 10:56AM

I use the drag on my reel and the direction I point the rod to limit the stress on the rod on my fresh water and in-shore salt rods. I can see the need for this on big game rods.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 05, 2017 11:20AM

Generally, the listed line ratings are supposedly inside of the blank's deadlift capacity. Not sure you can absolutely count on this however, and certainly not from the standpoint of sudden strain or shock.

..............

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Donald Becker (---.hawaii.res.rr.com)
Date: October 05, 2017 03:12PM

Phil,

Maybe the following will be of some help.

In the past Lamiglas had information about line ratings on their website. The words were about as follows:

"When a rod rated at 20 pounds is at a 45 degree angle to the fish, the 20 pound line will break before the rod will break."

Again, that's only as I remember the statement. The 45 degree angle shifts the load farther toward the handle, which is more capable of carrying the load.

What complicates matters more is inconsistent rod line ratings and fishing line ratings. Of course we can not forget to add braid into the mix.

(edit for spelling)

Don Becker



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2017 03:16PM by Donald Becker.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Jay Lancaster (---.triad.rr.com)
Date: October 05, 2017 04:44PM

I doubt that any manufacturer would ever list a number for catastrophic failure. First off...it's a fairly worthless number to most anyone that would be concerned. If a manufacturer says a blank is good for 50-80# line, then I'm going to stick within that range. That is where they want me to stay...so I oblige.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 05:47PM

this just a guess on my part I believe that the line weights are calculated with mono or Dacron as fluorocarbon/ braid are fairly new to the market and not everyone chooses to use it add in the fact of the small dia. and high tensile break strength, abrasion resistance doesn't actually reflect the poundage it is said to be as some braids you could tow the QE2 with it or raise the Titanic .

you have to consider the load the line is under with the weight of everything connected to it before fish fight/ weight is added to the rod it self.
I like the good fight so I use lighter lines and rods some like to just winch in a fish I don't find to much fun in that

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 07:55PM

Yes, but you have to inquire.

Everybody has their own way but my leader isn’t my fuse, the main line is. Those that fish blue water will find a time where they must put far more pressure on a fish than the drag setting. That is when it pays to develope the feel to judge just how much pressure the line, knots, and blank can handle.

BTW, the company I inquired with said thier saltwater blanks would deadlift their ratings but admitted that freshwater blanks wouldn’t because the public would consider them to heavy and wouldn’t buy them.

I had asked about a blank rated 12 to 25# and was shown pictures of it in a jig, with the tip brought back to the butt in a 180 degree bend, and told it failed between 20 and 22 pounds. I was convinced it would easily do more than 25# at any reasonable fishing angle. So far I haven’t been able to break it!

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 08:06PM

I tend to think in terms of fly rods, which aren't much good at winching in big fish and are relatively fragile - to the degree that some savvy feather flingers tie ten or twenty yards of nylon monofilament between the end of the fly line and the beginning of the Dacron or GSP backing to act as a shock absorber when playing respectably-sized fish. Of course the suggested "weight" of a fly line does not refer to its breaking strength. The breaking strength of a fly rod blank remains a complete mystery - until you exceed it.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 10:02PM

Okay Phil, keeping in mind I’m not a fellow fly rod fisherman, it would seem to me that your fuse is your tippet or leader. Thinking 7 to 12 weight I’d guess your fuse ranging from 8 to 20#, more or less.

Typically your drag setting is a quarter of that. So it comes down to can that ten weight fishing a 15# tippet with a drag setting of 4# handle you clamping down on the spool and putting 15# of pressure on that fish.

I’d say it is mostly about rod angle . If you point straight at the fish the blank is removed from the equation. If you keep the bend to 90 degrees or less you are in good shape. If over that you have to know you are courting disaster.

Fly rods are really flaky on ratings. I have an 8 weight white river piece of garbage that I wouldn’t trust to dead lift a can of beer and a 5 weight RX8 that can lift a 5 pound bass in a total high stick position and requires a 6.5 weight line to cast. I’d say you have to consider blanks pedigree and intended use. And don’t be afraid to inquire!

But I reckon you already know most of this. And I do share your pain my brother. Little love for us salty dogs compared to the bass fisherman and all their technique specific offerings.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: October 06, 2017 10:04AM

Russell: I appreciate the differences you point out between fresh and salt water fish and fishing. They are substantial differences. Much fly fishing is a solo act and the angler must land his own fish. The typical salt-water fly rod is nine feet long or longer, but carrying a gaff or a net with a five-foot handle is not practical most of the time. This forces the fly angler to do some high-sticking of big, strong fish to land them. That's the motive for my interest in the breaking strength of blanks - fly rod blanks used for catching 15+ pound strong, ocean-going fish in particular.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 06, 2017 10:07AM

I don't get it. Maybe my thinking, as is frequently the case and limited to fly rods, is backwards.

Always thought that when fighting a fish the rod was to protect the tippet while tiring the fish, and that it is the fisherman's task to protect the rod from an over stress situation, which puts both tippet and rod at risk of failure.

What I have advised my sons and rod recipients is that stressing a fly rod beyond 90 degrees is abusive and in the danger zone for rod failure. It matters not the weight of a fish or a fish's pulling force, so long as the rod is not bent beyond 90 degrees the rod ought not fail regardless of the tippet strength.

To use Phil's example, the "fuse" or circuit breaker to protect a rod ought to be the fisherman using the degree of rod bent to determine and avoid an approaching rod failure. This has the added benefit of using tippet material whose lbs. of force strength might well exceed that of the rod.

Again, I could be all wet.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 06, 2017 10:15AM

You're not at all "wet" but we have to realize that most fishermen do not understand how to properly use a fishing rod.

.............

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: October 06, 2017 12:17PM

Please suggest a alternate way to avoid high-sticking a 9-foot fly rod while fishing alone and landing a 15#+ salt-water fish - other than playing the fish to death? I have been searching a long time for a solution other than fish only next to a shallow shore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2017 12:20PM by Phil Ewanicki.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 06, 2017 12:21PM

Hard to do, but if you let out some line and hold the rod level to the water and behind you, it is possible to have the fish at hand while the rod remains only slightly bent. Of course this can quickly go out the window in some boats, or if the fish decides not to cooperate as you'd planned.

............

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Russell Brunt (165.214.11.---)
Date: October 06, 2017 12:46PM

Ditto on what Tom is saying......but really depends on the fish. Some have nasty teeth.....some you don't dare drop on the deck as they will cause a lot of damage.

If I intend to eat him a gig is handy:) Other wise its get a hold of the line and cut as close to the fish's mouth as I can safely do. A fifteen pound dolphin or kingfish, in good enough shape to survive, is capable of causing some harm to all things in the boat. Some fish are easy to handle and some are a whole different matter. Phil, we are lucky to have a lot of the latter in our waters.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: October 07, 2017 02:06PM

I still would like blank manufacturers to reveal the breaking-lifting strength of their rod blanks, for the same reasons I want line and leader makers to post the actual breaking strength of their products.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 07, 2017 05:19PM

I don't disagree, but any such ratings would be for correct use, only. The maker could rate a blank at 25 pounds deadlift capacity, then a buyer high stick it with 3 pounds to failure, and believe the thing was defective since he did not have it loaded with 25 pounds. It could be a tricky thing for the manufacturers to do, although it would help them greatly if they included a small instruction sheet with each blank as to correct use.

..............

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 07, 2017 07:07PM

Tom is right on, in my opinion. Rod builders clamor for objective data then give the manufacturers who provide it a hard time because something unpleasant happened to them. Without considering the conditions under which they were operating is different than that under which the objective data were taken. It's a lot easier for them to keep doing it the way they have been, subjectively.

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Re: blank strength
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: October 07, 2017 07:07PM

Phil, if I may, I’d like to know what species of fish you are catching. I’d also be curious to know how often you experience a blank failing from fishing alone

Maybe I am lucky but I have had so few rods break, from fishing. In general I have found the ratings on blanks far more honest and meaningful than on lines, for example.

But what you are describing, attempting to land a saltwater fish by yourself, is a high risk proposition. You are forced to apply more pressure than desired with the rod at a bad angle and little line out to absorb the inevitable last ditch effort of the fish to survive. One of my more memorable rod failures involved a barracuda who decided he deserved his diner more than I deserved mine as I was attempting to boat a fish. We might consider ourselves lucky to ever succeed and maybe that, in some small part, explains our joy and pride when we do.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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