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ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Matt Caplis (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 01:56PM

I guess this question may not be limited to ProKote, but it's what I currently use. I like the time it allows me when applying to my guides and I don't feel rushed. I've read and watched videos on this (Tom's video was great), but I'm curious and want help regarding this issue I've noticed. After applying my first coat, oftentimes I can see thread lines under the epoxy, which is OK, so I add a second coat. After my second coat, especially the larger guides near the butt of the rod I still see and can feel thread lines. Do I just keep adding epoxy until these lines are no longer noticeable? The smaller guides don't present this problem. I have tried my best to level the rod and I understand epoxy is self-leveling. The process I use is to put the epoxy on the rod guides and once all guides have epoxy on them, I stop my dryer and let it sag down and wick away any excess. I have a cheaper Mudhole dryer that turns slowly. I've also noticed on a couple spinning rods that epoxy will climb up onto the guide toward the ring and it makes me curious as to why the top of the foot isn't covered if it's on the metal leading to the ring? Sorry to be long winded. Any help is appreciated.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 04, 2017 02:25PM

I've never quite understood allowing the epoxy to sag and then wicking off the excess. It is allowing it to sag that often causes problems in the first place. The only time I would remove any finish is if you were rotating it and it was sagging regardless. In which case you definitely have too much on there and need to remove some.

Next time you apply finish, don't stop the rod. Don't allow the finish to sag. If what you put on there isn't sagging, why cause it to? You may find this alleviates your problem entirely.

.........

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 02:35PM

Yes, add a third coat where needed.

ProKote represents itself as a medium viscosity epoxy. It seems to me to be more lite than medium.

Multiple coats, and yes sometimes 3 coats, and some wicking up the guides is the price for the extended open time and a lite to medium viscosity finish.

Check the temperature in your work area. ProKote will take forever to cure in a cold room. I frequently am running heaters, in the summer, to get my basement work area up to or higher than 72.

Do not yield to the temptation to pile on finish to avoid a second or third coat. It's a sure way to footballs even if you are wicking off excess.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Matt Caplis (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 02:42PM

Tom, I got the idea, maybe incorrectly on my part, from reading the article "A Better Epoxy Finish" in the library. My understanding was if you apply to much then "footballs" will form and/or wavy finishes. I guess I'm just struggling to get my finishing to look even, so maybe I'm adding too much epoxy at first thinking I can wick away the excess when done and it'll prove to be level? Thank you for the insight.

Don: I appreciate your response as well. My room temp is probably about 74 degrees. As I said to Tom, I think I am adding quite a bit initially, then taking it off when it sags. I don't see the sagging when the rod is rotating, rather when I stop it for a short time.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 02:53PM

I never stop a rod to let epoxy sag, always need to use 2 coats to get rid of thread lines on the big guides. I have used Pro-Kote, now am using Flex Coat lite because I get nervous waiting for Pro Kote to cure. I have never had epoxy climb the ring-that sounds like too much epoxy and/or too slow rotation during curing.

I try to get a level looking coat on every coat. Sometimes I remove a little after a minute or two if it doesn't look level. Sounds like I'm using less epoxy than you.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 04, 2017 02:58PM

Matt,

I think a good many people got that idea by looking at the photos and not reading the accompanying text. Yes if you apply too much which you'll know if you see a "football" shape. In that case, remove some. But if you stop the rod and allow the finish to sag, well... that's not the idea. Almost any amount of finish is going to sag if you stop the rod from rotating while the finish is still flowing. If you're rotating the rod and no sags or footballs appear during rotation, by all means do not stop the rotation.

............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2017 02:58PM by Tom Kirkman.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Matt Caplis (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 03:37PM

Thank you Tom and Michael. So, in regard to a dryer going "too slow" how fast should a dryer rotate? As I said, mine is a one speed dryer purchased from Mudhole and I don't recall how fast it rotates, but it looks like the American Tackle dryer (9 rpms) they advertise seen in this link. [www.mudhole.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2017 03:38PM by Matt Caplis.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Dan Ertz (---.dsl.airstreamcomm.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 04:32PM

Could it be that the thread on the larger guides isn't as tightly packed together as the smaller ones, and therefore the "thread lines"?

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 05:17PM

the speed is right where it should be 6 -9 rpm for a drier some run higher speeds for application but that isn't necessary either they are in just a hurry . once you got it going let it go don't put on the breaks!
I have tried all the finishes epoxies and keep on going back to flex coat as it has been the most reliable for all the years I have been building.
you have to remember that the lite or medium viscosity finishes are just that thinner and will require the application of more thinner coats to cover.
I my self use the high build and apply a thin coat and then follow it up with a second coat and it comes out prefect every time.
happy building!

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 04, 2017 05:20PM

The thinner the epoxy the higher the RPMs on the dryer should be. 18RPM is a good all around speed.

You might have a go at hand rotation. You flip the rod 180 degrees every time it starts to get a little bit heavy on the bottom. At first this will be every few minutes, later on it'll be maybe every 10 minutes. You'll have to babysit it for a couple to three hours but you can get an absolutely beautiful finish this way, including making sure that the wrap on the edges of the guide feet maintain coverage.

............

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Roger Templon (---.aoo.pa.atlanticbb.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 07:24PM

Matt

I often add a third coat of epoxy to my guide wraps, and sometimes a fourth coat to the butt wrap. I am using Threadmaster Lite at the moment,but would do the same with just about any brand and type of epoxy. I never load the wraps with epoxy until it forms a drip that needs wicked off.

Rog

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 08:35PM

You're doing all right , just apply another thin coat. When you graduate to a better finish your problems will be over.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2017 08:37PM by Lynn Behler.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Matt Caplis (---.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
Date: October 04, 2017 10:38PM

Thanks everyone for all the tips and encouragement!

Lynn, when you say "a better finish" what do you mean? Or, maybe I should ask what is a better finish?

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 05, 2017 07:32AM

There is no "better" finish. There are simply different finishes and some may work better for your particular application technique than others.

.........

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Gregg Zambrovitz (---.se.biz.rr.com)
Date: October 05, 2017 11:35AM

I think Tom's last comment is important to keep in mind - there is no "better" finish - depends on application, and personal preferences.

Personally, I like a one coat finish, and I have built dozens of rods that look and work fine. However, after it sets, there have been times I will go back and apply a second thin coat because some of the wraps (especially on the larger guides) would benefit from it.

I use ProKote mostly, but I also Thread Master - for me they both worked fine. In the end, whether you do one, two, or three coats - there is a way to make all work functionally and aesthetically.

Prokote: [www.mudhole.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2017 11:37AM by Gregg Zambrovitz.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 11:37AM

Mathew Paul wrote about Flexcoat High Build; "I my self use the high build and apply a thin coat and then follow it up with a second coat and it comes out prefect every time."

This is what I do also but I heat up the epoxy in warm water for 10 minutes before applying. I will add, on the second coat; I will fill in the low spots using the brush just to move the epoxy around to where I want it. This seems to give me a nice level flatness. I rotate at 14 RPMs on my Alps upgrade chuck dryer. Totally agree with Tom about technique and finishes.

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Gregg Zambrovitz (---.se.biz.rr.com)
Date: October 05, 2017 11:39AM

Hi Lance - did you see that CRB has an epoxy bottle warmer now?
[www.mudhole.com]

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 11:44AM

No I did not, Thanks Gregg

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: Matt Caplis (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 05, 2017 12:47PM

Great information! I've been tinkering with this for several years, but I'm just now getting back into it in a more serious way. Thank you so much everyone!

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Re: ProKote Epoxy Question
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: October 06, 2017 02:28PM

Matt,
I tend to work in a pretty high volume environment, so build speed is important.
I normally use 1+ coats of flex coat high build for the builds.

I use a power wrapper to apply finish at high speed, and then after getting everything to my satisfaction - I will move the rod to a drum dryer.

I mix up the finish, then apply a generous coat to all of the guides and butt wrap at a very high speed. This is about a 2-3 minute job per rod.

Then, I will go back, turning the rod at a slower speed, using the power wrapper. I control the speed, as well as stopping and starting the rod with the power wrapper. When I go back, I have a finish brush in one hand and a heat gun in the other hand.

I normally will hit each guide with a touch of heat to thin the finish and to let it flow nicely. If I see a think spot, I will add a touch of finish. If the finish is a bit thick, I will wick it off with the brush.

I do this from the butt to the tip of the rod. Once I get to the tip, I will go over the rod one more time using high intensity light and a magnifier head band to insure that every spot of the finish on the rod is perfect, that there are no thin spots or thick spots.
At that time I will move the rod from the power wrapper that I use for finish application to the drum dryer for long term drying.

Normally, the entire finish application and double checking and finish touch up takes me about 10-15 minutes.

Then, after an overnight drying time on the drum dryer, I will do one more final check on the rod. In about 90% of the cases, the rods need no further work. Once in a great while I might need to add a 2nd coat on a guide wrap or butt wrap, but this is not normally the case.

I use the term 1+ for the number of coats that I add to the rod because, on the final cleanup of the guides, the finish will have gotten to the tacky state, and might need a touch more finish with a bit of heat to get it to nicely flow into the rest of the finish.

But, time is money so, the more rods that move through the shop, the happier is the banker.

Take care

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