"The lever arm effect always trumps spine effect. The force of the former is greater than the latter by a large margin".

Well, I'm glad you admit the the spine has an effect. Now let's barter over the amount / optimization. ;)

Don Becker



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2017 11:00PM by Donald Becker.

That's what it is and what I've always said it was - an effect. But one that plays little to no role in rod twist.

.............

And, .... you are partially correct. While the spine may play a small role in small rods, it plays a larger role in larger rods.

Don Becker

Don:

I wasn't getting at you

What I meant by ''fat cats'' was the big global brand name mass produced fishing tackle manufacturers

Donald Becker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And, .... you are partially correct. While the
> spine may play a small role in small rods, it
> plays a larger role in larger rods.


So do the higher and larger guides. It's all relative. And a fisherman is never going to be able to hold any rod perfectly on the 0 axis while doing much of anything with the rod. Build one of the demo devices with the ball bearings to remove the friction aspect of a pipe rod holder and try your two rods again. Your rod is going to spin until the guides face the load. We've had guys try and try to keep their casting rods upright on the demo device with spine orientation and in the event they can get them perfectly set on the 0 axis "tightrope", all it takes is a bump with a finger to send them spinning around to the bottom.

..........

Tom,

"So do the higher and larger guides. It's all relative. "

Yes, it is relative, but not equal. I have a surf rod with a 24 XBG butt guide and a 32mm reel seat (no bushings). And you would compare that with a 20 to 25mm butt guide and a 22mm reel seat (bushings ?).
24/32=0.75 20/22=0.91 and 25/22=1.14 That should be clear for most. The guide to blank diameters ratios is greater for smaller rods.

Regarding the rest of your post, I do not have time today. Tomorrow is booked. Perhaps Thursday.

Don Becker

Tommy: You opened a can of worms with your question. I have been building rods for close to 40 years, and learned from my Dad, who had been building them for 30 plus years. Building light spinning rods, and fly rods, over the years, I was taught to build on the spine. We are going back to the then "Expensive" Fenwick glass blanks and beyond. I was taught to build on the soft side of the spine for fly rods and spinning rods, and the hard side of the spin for casting rods. There has been a ton of research, time, and product improvement over the years. I think the simple answer is You can build your rods on the spine, off the spine, or on the straightest axis. The improvement is going to be in slight for the average to advanced person. Build it the way you want it.

Mike Bradfrod
R.M.B. Fishing Rods
Nampa, Idaho

Tom,

You mention

"And a fisherman is never going to be able to hold any rod perfectly on the 0 axis while doing much of anything with the rod."

As a trout/steelhead fisherman, I abused my rods greatly. After moving to Hawaii and starting surf fishing, it became necessary to use larger equipment. To achieve any meaningful distance, it became a necessity to apply power directly in line with the cast. We learn to cast to become better fishermen and add another tool to the box in order to catch fish. After 46 years of surf fishing, I have become relatively good at getting power directly into the cast. On a rare occasion it has been necessary to cast directly into a 32mph headwind.

Even though I have had years to learn how to cast optimally, I still see noticeable results in distance as well as fighting fish. Spining a rod provides optimal results regardless of experience level.

This is simple physics, and can not be disputed.
Loading a rod stores and builds energy that will be released (when casting or retrieving a fish) . To optimize the ability of the rod to return to its natural state, it is necessary to have the guides and spine on the same plane .
When spining a rod, it is loaded and the rod goes to a position of equilibrium (equal forces on both sides of the spine, each being 90 degrees from the spine). This equilibrium gives the rod a balanced, and most efficient return to its natural state.

Don Becker