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Spinning concept layout
Posted by: David DeBruhl (---.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com)
Date: June 18, 2017 01:40PM

I have a couple of questions on the "Concept" layout for a spinning guide layout for a 6'10" Mag-Lt XF rod for light plastics. Going by the articles based on this, here are my measurements. Spool lip measures 41.3 mm x 27 = 1115 mm.Convert to inch = 43- 57/64 for placement of the choker guide. Choker and running guides will be size 6 @ 8.2 mm in height. With the reel in the reel seat and reel shaft in line with the outside edge of the choker guide, I have taken measurement from this line to the rod in various points. From the tip of the reel to up the rod I get measurements of 48.9 mm at 18 inches and 43.5 mm.at 22 inches. 18"-22" is the recommended distance for the first stripper guide.A KL25 height is 44.0 mm will place at 20-3/4". The 3rd stripper guide is a KL12 with a height of 19.7 mm at 37.25" from the reel tip. The two KL guide sizes in between these two for the 2nd guide are height measurements of 26.2 for the KL16 and 32.8 for the KL20. The KL16 would be at 32-1/2' from reel tip and the KL20 would be at 27 3/4".


Guide Height Distance from reel tip
KL25 - 44.0 mm - 20.75"
KL20 - 33.5 mm - 27.75"
KL16 - 26.2 mm - 32.5"
KL12 - 19.7 mm - 37.25"
KT6 - 8.2 mm - 44.00"

My question and issue is the the second stripper guide spacing would be off with either the KL20 or the KL16. The KL20 would have 7" between it and the first guide with 10 " between it and the 3rd guide. The KL16 would have 12" between it and the first guide and 5" between it and the 3rd guide.

I can layout combinations of the KL-H guides that will work better, but the first stripper guide would be a KL-16H at 43.3 mm which would fall 21.75" "from the reel tip but would not be at least half of the reel spool lip diameter of 41.3 mm. A KL20H at 50.8 mm in height would be only 17" from the reel tip. Is it okay to go less than half of the spool diameter on the first guide or to be less than 18" from the spool tip?

I know I make this concept harder than it has to be..

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Re: Spinning concept layout
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 18, 2017 04:20PM

don't over think it .
I would tape them on and do some test casts and see what the differences are and then back in the shop would do a load test and use that as my final layout with those guides

I would do a 20@ 20.5-21 inches lead stripper down to a 12 @ 29 -30 inches as choke and start the runners size 5 or 6 at 36-37 and from the tip top first runner @ 4- 4.5 and divide the space from that guide to the 36-37 runner equally . probably ending up with 4-5 running guides

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!

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Re: Spinning concept layout
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: June 18, 2017 05:52PM

Dave,
Have you read the article in the library? I think you'll see you can cut your guide sizes and especially you guide weight down dramatically, making for a much better balanced and enjoyable rod. It's real easy to do and needs nothing special to complete just about anywhere.

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Re: Spinning concept layout
Posted by: David DeBruhl (---.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com)
Date: June 18, 2017 06:41PM

I have moved the reel seat down towards the butt leaving enough for a 9" grip section. This has helped and I can run a KL-20(H) at 18" from the reel tip and a KL-12(H) at 29.25" with the last stripper guide a KL-H7M at 37.25". That makes the spacing 11.25 to 8" to 6.75". This would follow the guide concept outline for this layout. This would leave me equal spacing on the 5- size 6 running guides spaced a little under 5" apart.The article in the library reads that on medium rods with medium reels, you'll need 3 guides in between the reel and choker guide. I am sizing this with a 2000 series reel so I would consider this a medium sized reel.I plan to use 15# braid with a 6# flouro leader. This is my first rod build with this "Concept system" . Previous builds have all been with the static load and buying kits already pre- selected. I am hoping to get skilled in choosing guides that will adhere to this concept and hopefully build a better mousetrap.

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Re: Spinning concept layout
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dyn.centurytel.net)
Date: June 19, 2017 10:09AM

Here are some "usuallys" to make sure you are on track with KR Concept. These are not rules but rather observations made from many, many KR builds and perhaps as much "study" as anyone has put into the system.

Usually the stripper will fall between 19 and 21 inches, mostly 19.

Usually the choke guide will fall an equal distance from the stripper as the stripper is from the spool axle. if the stripper is 19 out from the axle tip, the choke will likely be 19 out from the stripper. Handy. Bullseye the two remaining reduction guides with the stripper and choke in position.

Usually the bottom of the choke guide ring should align with the top of the third reduction guide ring in the final layout. (When viewed in bullseye position)

Usually it's best to stick with the 20 stripper. the idea of a 16 is novel and "cool" but unless you're casting very light line you'll be much happier with the 20.

Usually the KB5.5 and KT5.5 is the perfect compromise between saving weight and casting knots.

Usually it takes less than 10 minutes total to set up a kick butt KR Concept rod using these "markers".

Usually customers are blown away by the performance and weight of the concept.

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Re: Spinning concept layout
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 19, 2017 11:00AM

I agree with Jim. For the rod you want drop the NGC using KL guides and go with the KR concept using KL-H guides. The KR concept is based a rapid line choking using high frame small ring reduction guides Like Jim I would use a KL-H 20 as the stripper placed at 19" or 20" depending on whether you are using braid or mono. This would be followed by KL-H 10 and KL-H 5.5 for reduction guides. For the choke and running guides use the KB/KT guide of you choice. I use mostly KB/KT 4.5, and I use braid with a fluorocarbon leader with no problems. This set up will give a light and responsive rod that will cast and perform extremely well. In my opinion the KR concept is as good as it gets.
Norm

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Re: Spinning concept layout
Posted by: David DeBruhl (170.7.248.---)
Date: June 19, 2017 12:02PM

Thanks Norm and Jim. I wasn't sure if I could reduce those down that fast going from 20 to 10 to 5.5. The couple of articles I read from the library and others articles online it did not specify. My setup is to run 10-15# braid and a fluorocarbon leader. If I go with the KB/KT 4.5 running guides, hopefully the line knot will pass through easily. I typically tie an FG knot so it should. Thanks again.

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Re: Spinning concept layout
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 19, 2017 05:09PM

A KB/KT 4.5 should work fine. I also use an FG knot for my line to line connection with no problem even when using a size 4 KB/KT. If you feel uncomfortable about it you can always use a size 5. All of my spinning rods now use the KR concept, I really like it a lot. The articles in the library describe the older NGC set up. Anglers Resource does a nice job of describing the KR concept. You can use the KR GPS at Anglers Resource to get a good starting point for your guide layout. [anglersresource.net]
Norm

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Re: Spinning concept layout
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: June 20, 2017 12:08AM

The article couldn't specify because there are so many different guides and guide heights out there, for instance REC spinning guides are shorter framed than anything else I've used, this means I have to buy a larger ringed, more expensive guide to use them with the NGC system. Best to pick a guide type to start, buying every size within reason, than just set up every rod thereafter from that set, than just order the ones necessary for each build after you've done the layout and test casting. Than just bag up your guides till next time you need them. I use Pac Bay Minima match guide to size up the Fuji KLs, the difference in heights are minuscule, the difference in price huge.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2017 12:13AM by Spencer Phipps.

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