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Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Steve Longfield (---.abhsia.telus.net)
Date: June 18, 2017 10:16AM

New to rod building here, and after fishing my first build for a few months my stripping guides have started creasing the epoxy. Hope these pictures work. Are the stripping guide feet too large?

[goo.gl]

[goo.gl]

[goo.gl]

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 18, 2017 10:38AM

Steve,
The size of the guides and the guide feet are fine.

However, to minimize this effect in the future, try thinning down the end of the guide to a near razor thickness. By having the guides thinned at the ends, you don't reduce the necessary strength of the guides but you do reduce the flexing effect and cracking effect that is being seen on your guides.

When I prep the guides, I use my 1x30 inch belt sander with about 100 grit paper on it.
I hold the guides perpendicular to the rotating belt. I sand material off of the top side of the guide to bring the outer half of the guide to a near razor thinness to avoid wrapping issues as well as to avoid epoxy cracking issues.
Using this technique, 0 issues with epoxy cracking or wrapping issues.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

These sanders are relatively inexpensive but can be used for so many different things.
Guide prep, knife sharpening, lawn mower blade sharpening, wood shaping, grip shaping etc. etc. etc.

[www.harborfreight.com]

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: June 18, 2017 10:38AM

Guide foot cracking happens, something has to give since the blank flexes at a different rate than teh guide feet. When you CP the guide wraps, it can cause the epoxy to not "stick" to the thread, and over times you end up with that hazy look, which is what you have there. Every single rod I used CP on teh guides, that happens to.

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: June 18, 2017 11:45AM

i,m just thinking maybe a coat of perma gloss will seal the cracks and darken the light spots and being very flexable the cracks will not reopen..

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: June 18, 2017 08:03PM

These are NOT cracks, this is the epoxy lifting off of teh thread caused by using CP on guide wraps.

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: June 19, 2017 11:31AM

so, once again CP is the bad guy. lol.

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Steve Longfield (---.ip.van.radiant.net)
Date: June 19, 2017 12:04PM

Thanks for all the tips everyone.

Yes I used CP on these wraps... going forward is it a bad idea to continue using CP? I just finished my 2nd build and thankfully didn't use CP.

Any solutions now that it's on there? Should I layer one more coat of epoxy?

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: June 19, 2017 01:03PM

Try at least one more coat of CP to make sure the thread is sealed, then after it dries another coat of finish.
If you just put a coat of finish, it may be "blotchy" at the cracks.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381
Fax 870-425-0782

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 19, 2017 01:10PM

It is difficult to entirely prevent these checks or cracks. Rods both with and without CP will get them, particularly in areas where you have a high degree of flex on the rod. Taper your guide feet as thinly as possibly and increase wrapping tension slightly. You should see a difference, although don't expect to completely eliminate this situation in every case.

.............

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: June 19, 2017 02:41PM

tom, does CP make it more likely that you will get these checks or cracks? thanks.

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 19, 2017 03:11PM

I have made plenty of rods both ways, and only after many years in a couple occasions have I had these cracks appear, so it's not "universal," with or without CP.

If you don't use CP you will get some interesting colors, but you will not get the vibrant, bright, colors you may be after, like the oranges, blues, teals, candy apple, other bright reds, lighter colors like yellows, light blues, white, light gray., etc.

I suggest if one is getting this, or worrying about it, they take the advice about thin guide feet and tighter wrapping, at least two coats of CP, and get on enjoying all the great colors out there. But wrapping without CP has advantages too. Like stealth rods, making a black cherry color out of garnet by not using CP. Other options are infinite.

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 19, 2017 03:35PM

Not necessarily, no. You will find them on numerous commercially made rods as well, and few of those employ CP.

..............

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Donald Becker (---.hawaii.res.rr.com)
Date: June 20, 2017 03:31AM

Please advise me if I am not seeing this correctly.

It appears the guide has two legs. One on the tip side and one on the reel side. Each is attached to opposite sides of the ring frame.

If the rod is compressed, the ring would tend to rotate due to the pressure from the legs being applied to opposite sides of the ring.

Although small, some of this twisting action could be transmitted down the guide feet.

I know this is reaching, but it could be a part of the problem.

Don Becker

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: June 20, 2017 05:37AM

Steve, the more you fish this rod, the worse it is going to look. As I said twice, this is not a crack, it is an exclusive problem when you use CP where the epoxy lifts off of the thread. There is absolutely nothing that you can do to fix this on this rod.

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: June 20, 2017 08:53AM

hi donald, it sounds like your saying that this is less likely to happen if one uses single foot guides. correct?

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: June 20, 2017 09:19AM

also, if flexing the rod causes cracks or whatever, why does it happen where the rod flexes the least, down near the butt...maybe these guides get the most abuse from bumps and knocking on rails, being stepped on, etc. if a guide is stepped on maybe flex is good. lol.

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 20, 2017 09:50AM

You have more power being applied to the rod down towards the butt, plus the guides located there tend to be larger and stiffer. Single foot guides can be as bad or worse, as they have a longer, stiffer foot.

Just taper the feet ends as shallow as you can, add a little more wrapping tension and run with it. There is only so much you can do.

.............

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Steve Longfield (---.bankerspetroleum.com)
Date: June 20, 2017 09:56AM

Billy, thanks again. With this being my first rod, there are many imperfections with it so this cracking doesn't sting as bad. Looking at my factory rods, I should probably be epoxying more around the end of the guide foot under the ring than I did. I guess it's possible the guide feet are moving in and out of their hold because of this too.

Ben, this rod is less than 3 months old and has only been fished a handful of times. It's played with some bigger fish, but not "flex to the butt" fish. I'm pretty sure I haven't dinged up the stripper guides whatsoever yet.

Tapering the feet, less CP and tighter wraps are all in my future plans before I move onto my 3rd build. Thanks guys. Awesome forum to get help!

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 20, 2017 10:50AM

Steve,
Build your next rod with no cp and see how it goes.

Millions of factory rods are built every year with no CP and they work very well.

Good luck.

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Re: Stripping guide creasing epoxy
Posted by: Steve Longfield (---.ip.van.radiant.net)
Date: June 20, 2017 10:52AM

Yes, I wanted clear wraps on my second build anyway so I skipped the CP on the mhx native. We'll see how it does

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