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sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Sean D'Rose (184.69.214.---)
Date: June 13, 2017 02:11PM

hi,

I'm building a Sage one 13'6" 7wt spey rod

the guide recommendations are as follows.(see below)


The top 6 guides seem small to me (size 3)

I was going to upsize them to size 4, but a friend informed me that sage deliberately undersize the guides to make the line track truer to the blank.

Has anyone built a sage spey using their guide size recommendations?
What were your thoughts?

I guess it is just the thin monofilament line running through the rod most of the time, so maybe smaller guides are not an issue?



I plan on using REC double foot heavy duty snakes for this build.


guide size space (inches from top)
1 3 6
2 3 12-3/8
3 3 19-11/16
4 3 28-1/8
5 3 37-1/4
6 3 47
7 4 57-1/2
8 4 68-9/16
9 5 80-1/4
10 5 92-1/4
11 12 106-1/16
12 16 121

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 13, 2017 03:22PM

Sean,
The occupation is called "custom rod building". If you want to put a guide on a rod that is a different size and or type than someone else would put on the rod; then by all means put on that guide/s,

Good luck

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 13, 2017 05:38PM

As long as the guides will pass all your knots, they are large enough.

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 13, 2017 05:38PM

As long as the guides will pass all your knots, they are large enough.

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 13, 2017 06:00PM

Sean

Blank manufacturer's recommendations do command consideration, but not blind adherence in terms of size or location.

Ask yourself if the guides will easily pass all knots, both when rigging and fighting a fish. Is another guide needed or are there too many guides? Tape on guides and experiment with different stripper sizes and locations. Can you truly say the casting distance improves or degrades?

To paraphrase Roger, you're the builder and whatever you ultimately select for guides and their locations is your call and responsibility.

And no, the size 3 snakes do not strike me as undersized. If you use size 4s what might you gain other than additional weight?

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 13, 2017 06:00PM

Sean

Blank manufacturer's recommendations do command consideration, but not blind adherence in terms of size or location.

Ask yourself if the guides will easily pass all knots, both when rigging and fighting a fish. Is another guide needed or are there too many guides? Tape on guides and experiment with different stripper sizes and locations. Can you truly say the casting distance improves or degrades?

To paraphrase Roger, you're the builder and whatever you ultimately select for guides and their locations is your call and responsibility.

And no, the size 3 snakes do not strike me as undersized. If you use size 4s what might you gain other than additional weight?

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: June 13, 2017 06:53PM

I think that rod manufactures make rods in most part for general use and economy and don't consider personal preferences. If you have a preference or a reason for doing something then do it if works better than the manufacturers recommendations. Use the recommendations as a guide and improve on it if possible.

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 13, 2017 08:45PM

Take the manufacturer's marketing statements with a grain a salt - Sage used to be big on claiming to use "oversized guides" for increased casting distance. Now they're using undersized guides to make the line track truer to the blank? It's nonsense.

It's always better to use the correct sized guides which are always the smallest guides that will easily pass the required lines and connections, and hold up to the task at hand.

..........

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Sean D'Rose (---.cg.shawcable.net)
Date: June 13, 2017 10:03PM

Thanks everyone.

I'm in Calgary so it's a challenge to size up before I buy online.

I've looked at factory Sage ones and the guides have looked small, but asthetics are all I have to go on.

And Rec guides aren't cheap

The guides I can get here aren't great but I'll use them as a reference to see which guide size i prefer

Thanks

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 13, 2017 10:50PM

Sean,
Any reason to use Rec guides as opposed to simple stainless snake guides?

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: June 13, 2017 11:27PM

I'd size my guides to the line used, larger diameter, shorter belly lines would require bigger guides, smaller diameter long belly lines may work fine with the 3s. Your probably not sure right now, so I'd go with the 4s, with the REC guides you'd never notice the difference between the sizes while using the rod.
My 7 wt. switch rods that for the most part require short belly lines all have 4s on them, I wouldn't go smaller.

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 14, 2017 01:33AM

I find considering the belly of a Spey line irrelevant for choosing guide sizes ass the belly is outside the guides when Spey casting.

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Chris Richer (131.137.243.---)
Date: June 14, 2017 11:15AM

Contact Andy at RodBuilder Supplies on the left. He was doing a lot of building of Sage blanks. He would most likely be able to answer your questions.

Chris Richer
Iroquois ON

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Sean D'Rose (184.69.214.---)
Date: June 14, 2017 12:38PM

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sean,
> Any reason to use Rec guides as opposed to simple
> stainless snake guides?

Hi Roger,
I haven't been impressed with the quality of the standard stainless guides I've bought in the past.
feet are gnarly, twisted, etc.

I've seen the REC and they look good. That's my only reason.
My friend has used the snakebrand but recommends the REC

sean

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Re: sage one spey guide recommendations, too small?
Posted by: Sean D'Rose (184.69.214.---)
Date: June 14, 2017 01:19PM

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd size my guides to the line used, larger diameter, shorter belly lines would require bigger
> guides, smaller diameter long belly lines may work fine with the 3s. Your probably not sure right
> now, so I'd go with the 4s, with the REC guides you'd never notice the difference between the
> sizes while using the rod.

Phil Erickson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find considering the belly of a Spey line irrelevant for choosing guide sizes ass the belly is outside the guides when Spey casting.

Chris Richer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Contact Andy at RodBuilder Supplies on the left. He was doing a lot of building of Sage blanks. He would most likely be able to answer your questions.

-------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------



Thanks Spencer, Phil,

This is my first spey rod and build.
Like Phil suggests, during the cast, the entire spey head is outside the guides, so its only when landing the steelhead where the head is back in the guides.

I've decided to buy a couple of the cheaper sz3 and 4 stainless guides and decide if the 3s are too small. Then order the RECs online.


Thanks Chris,
I actually bought the blank from Andy so i'll reach out to him. Thanks, I didn't even think of that.

cheers

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