This isn't a hard one to figure out. Somebody or something pressured the guide, forcing the guide foot to impart a crushing force to the blank. Crush fractures are generally indicated by lengthwise split/s along the blank. Your photo only shows one such split, but it's along the area where the forward guide foot would have been. The remainder of the break is fairly clean which indicates impact damage, which in this case would be the guide foot being pressured against/into the rod blank. The split is the give-away. In breaking something like 200 rod blanks for the article on rod breakage, we were never able to induce lengthwise splits in any kind of break unless some sort of crushing force had been applied prior to the actual failure.

In short, this wasn't your fault as the builder.


.............

Tom

Many, many thanks. This was driving me nuts. I guess it is good to know it was not something I did or did not do, but I am the builder and it still hurts.

By the way, I found the online version of your May 2010 article In Texas Saltwater Fisherman on this topic. Unfortunately the online version did not include the photos. Maybe a reprint with the photos in RodMaker is possible? I would dearly love to see the pictures.

Thanks again.

Don,
Based on the pictures,
I'd say the guide geometry caused a combined load and rotation while playing the fish under heavy load.
The guide frame height induced a rotational force on the blank while the blank was heavily deflected.
The force was concentrated at the blank adjacent to the wraps. The rotational force levered against the blank surface crushing the outer skin of the blank causing blank failure followed by guide failure.
Use of a snake guide or a lower frame insert guide would have reduced the torque load.
A reduction of drag would have also reduced the accumulated load effects.
I assume he lost the fish also. Too bad lost both and received nothing in return.

Gene

In a fishing situation with a fly rod, the guide would be on the bottom of the rod, thus little to no rotational force would be present.

..............

Donald La Mar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom
>
> Many, many thanks. This was driving me nuts. I
> guess it is good to know it was not something I
> did or did not do, but I am the builder and it
> still hurts.
>
> By the way, I found the online version of your May
> 2010 article In Texas Saltwater Fisherman on this
> topic. Unfortunately the online version did not
> include the photos. Maybe a reprint with the
> photos in RodMaker is possible? I would dearly
> love to see the pictures.
>
> Thanks again.



The photos are in the Volume 12 #6 issue of RodMaker, along with the original article. Copies are still available on the back issue page.

............

Hello Donald.

The article is "Rod Failure" and is in Volume 12 - Issue 6 - Page 10 of RodMaker Magazine.

If you don't have that one you can order a back issue of it from RodMaker Magazine, listed on the left side of the page, they are only $7.95.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

P.S. Sorry Tom we must have been writing at the same time.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2017 11:45AM by Robert A. Guist.

Donald,
From the looks of the magnified picture, I would have to conclude that the rod was stepped on or other wise crushed. Hence the failure.

Any chance, that a hammer or a boat anchor was dropped on the rod?


When you look at the pictures, you can see that the blanks has assumed an oval shape with crush lines extending up the blank.

Good luck

p.s.
Yes, I have seen similar breaks on a rod, where a boat anchor was dropped on the rod. As I said in the beginning, "stuff really does happen."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2017 11:53AM by roger wilson.

And that stuff has a cause, a reason for happening. It doesn't just "happen." Donald was looking for more than just "stuff happens," and thanks to Tom, he got what he wanted.

Tom, one last question on this failure. How do you differentiate between the case where the guide is crushed into the blank first and is the primary cause of failure and the case where the blank snaps between the legs of the guide thus crushing the legs of the guide into the blank as the blank pieces are bent severely toward each other? thanks

Michael,
Basically, in both of the cases you mentioned above, the blank is being crushed. It is just a matter of where the guide is being crushed.

End result - broken blank.

Good luck

Michael,
I have worked with quite a few rods, that had breaks that appeared rather close to the rod that is in question in this post.

For these rods in particular, that I repaired - the cause was the same. The rod was crushed in the hinge of a boat seat.

The back of the boat seat was down. The rod was laid on the boat seat back. Someone went to use the seat, flipped up the back of the seat. When the seat back was flipped up, the rod slid down to the hinge, got caught in the boat seat back hinge and was crushed with an appearance similar to the rod in the pictures shown above.

Good luck

If the blank failed first, then the sections are free to move away from the guide foot, or to bend the guide. The guide feet won't crush the blank after the blank has broken. You can cut a blank section in half and wrap a guide on the sections with the cut directly between the guide feet and then fold the sections over and the guide feet won't crush the blank. That can only happen while the blank is intact.

..............

Thanks, mick

I doubt you can break a rod blank in-between the guide feet as the area where the guide is will be under less stress than any area that lies between a pair of guides, with the highest concentration of stress directly in the middle of any pair. Now if there was some previous damage then it could break under a guide which is obviously happened in the instance the OP wrote about in the first post.

Could it be possible that the rod -- when the fish hit - was pulled down and hit the boat at that point - Thus causing a crushing impact ??

Bill - willierods.com

Hello Donald,

If you like to have one new flying rod 9' w12 ,3 pieces,good and cheap i can tell you i have one new ALL STAR AUSTIN
Series AF9012-3,Line weight 12,Lenght 9'.

I was buying this rod with $150,same years ago from TOM KIRKMAN ,not for fly fishing because i have problems with my legs so i can't fly fishing.I want this rod to change by me in spinning rod to fish from the bank at ROLLOVER PASS,BOLIVAR PENINSULA,TEXAS.

I am fishing just with long spinning fishing rods(over 10 ' ) from the bank on salt water,sitting on my ice box,but i already change some fly rods (SAGE RPLX 9',W10,W11, G.LOOMIS IMX 10' W10,,G.LOOMIS IMX 9',W12/13 ) in spinning rods so i have to many rods and now for medical reason i can't fish anymore and plus the channel ROLLOVER PASS must be close.

If you like the rod i can sale with the same price like i was buying from TOM KIRKMAN (you can ask TOM about this rod to see if is good or not rod.)

Before SHAKESPEARE own the ALL STAR CO.,i was buyng a lot of fly blanks AUSTIN (TITANIUM ) to build for me some very good spinning rods and i can tell you the blanks was very good blanks.I ive in HOUSTON and with this rod i was catching a lot of big fish fishing with rod built on w4,w5 blanks fishing on jig with FIRELINE ORIGINAL SMOKE 4 lb.+4 lb.fluorocarbon leader,and never have problems(fish over 15 lb.).

Regards,

Jean Scurtu

Mr. Scurtu,
My understanding was that OP was inquiring about the cause of failure rather then looking for a replacement of failed blank.