Hey folks. I was just planning my next build (a spinning rod) and went to use the KR Concept GPS software on the Angler's Resource site. I entered all the pertinent information for the rod and reel and hit the calculate button. As expected, It gave me the three reduction train guide sizes to use. Unexpectedly, when I scrolled down to see the measurement for the guide's locations, it only gave the location for the stripper guide, and no locations for the remaining reduction guides, nor the choke guide.

Instead of the expected measured locations for those guides, it had NaN" in the column. What does NaN" mean? Admittedly I don't have a clue about spinning rod guide trains. I've only built two spinning rods to date, and used the KR GPS software for both of those builds. At that time it supplied specific measurements for each guide in relationship to the other guides.

I've read how to use the 27x and the NGC methods, but my understanding is that the KR Concept is quite a bit different. I know the KR concept places the choke guide quite a bit closer to the reel than the other methods. Is this something I am going to have to figure out for myself, or is there possibly a malfunction with the GPS software? I really love the way the two rods I've built using the KR concept GPS perfom.

Honestly, if it's something I am going to have to figure out myself I'll be lost. Actually, as the rod I am ordering components for is only 4" longer than the two spinning rods I've built, I'll just use the measurements for guide spacing from those rods on the new rod. The guide sizes the GPS recommends are the same.

Anyone have any answer as to whether the software is messed up, or any help they can provide? I want to take advantage of memorial day sales for the blank.

In case it matters the blank I'll be using for this upcoming build is the Eternity ETES610MXF-SS.

If your using the same reel than the GPS and the 27X systems will always give the same results. Rod length has no bearing in these calculations, of course anything after the reduction guides are dependent on rod length, action, etc.

Just tried the KR GPS and it worked fine. What were the measurements you entered? There are differences between the KR set up and the 27X/NGC set up. The KR concept is a modification of the NGC where the choke point is move back toward the reel.
Norm

David,

Maybe this will help....I just copied and pasted this from the GPS Software on the Anglers Resource web site:
Rod Length: 6'-10", (82"), Spool Tip at 13", Reel Size 3000, (same guide spacing for a size 2000 reels), Micro rod, Line 6-10 braid.

1) Enter the total length in inches of your rod blank
82"
2) Mount you reel in the reel seat and enter the distance from the rod butt to the tip of the spool axle on your spinning reel (at a "mid" position). It's OK to estimate this distance based on past rods you have built.
13"
3) From the drop down menu, choose the size reel (series) you plan to use on this rod.
4) Choose whether you want a micro or conventional rod. A "conventional" build will use KL-H guides but non-micro running guides. Best for larger leader knots.
5) Tell us about the line you plan to use with this rod.


Click calculate to generate a complete build sheet for your blank!
CALCULATE

YOUR ORDER:
Stripper:
16H
2nd Guide:
8 H
3rd Guide:
5.5 M
Number of runnings guides:
4


Suggested tops for Micro rods with 4.5mm running guides and tube sizes below 6.5 - LG
(not all frame colors and rings, see catalog)

Suggested tops for Micro rods with 5mm running guides and tube sizes 4.0 - 7.0 -
MN or F (4.5, 5.0, 5.5)
(not all frame colors and rings, see catalog)

Suggested tops for Micro rods with 5.5mm running guides and tube sizes 3.5 - 6.0 - F
(not all frame colors and rings, see catalog)

Suggested tops for Conventional rods with 6 or 7mm running guides and tube sizes 4.0 to 6.5 - MN


YOUR BUILD SHEET:

Stripper Position beyond spool axle tip:
19"
Stripper to Second Reduction Guide:
8"
Second Reducer to Third Reduction Guide:
5.92"
Third Reducer to Choke Guide:
7.08"
Total Reduction Train Length:
21"
Choke Point Position beyond Spool Axle Tip:
40"


TIP
As a final performance tweak, consider moving the choke guide slightly further out to obtain the position shown at left. This often helps line "turn the corner" as it reaches the blank and helps smooth the flow of line even further.

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2017 11:01AM by Donald R Campbell.

Spencer, Norman, and Donald. Thanks a ton for your responses. I knew I could count on you guys!!!

I just checked the site and this time it showed the measurements for the guides. Must have been some kind of malfunction earlier this morning. I tried it several different times with different measurements or reel size each time, and it always came up with that NaN posting in column where it shows the measurements between guides. Jotting them down just in cas. lol

Spencer, that's what I figured, that the measurements for the guides would be the same as the two spinning rods I've built since I put in the same reel and same line size. On a separate note .... it's always puzzled me that the software suggests a number of running guides without any consideration of blank action and power. Not that it matters I guess. Static testing and how closely I want the line to follow the curve of the blank is going to tell me how many.

Norman, yep, as stated above, I checked to see if it was working once I checked on this thread. The numbers I put in are exactly the numbers Donald listed except that since I'll be using 8# fluorocarbon line, I entered 10 - 14# mono for line size.

Donald, thank you for taking the time to enter what your findings were on the GPS. Greatly appreciated kind sir. As mentioned above, everything you posted above was spot on except for the line size. Of course that changed the guide sizes and their corresponding measurements a bit, but I've got them written down.

Once again, I can't thank you guys enough. Your responses are truly appreciated. My only hope is that I may some day return the favor. Now I gotta get to ordering stuff.

Thanks again !!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2017 02:49PM by David Baylor.

I'm on a laptop and unable to see the entire calculation sheet on the website. Could someone run my numbers and get back to me? Planning on KL-H guides.

Using Reel Measure Method

Distance A: 92 mm
Distance B: 80 mm
Distance C: 135 mm

I'm not OLD........I'm CHRONOLOGICALLY GIFTED

David, one thing I have learned from the KR rods I have built is that I usually need at least one more running guide then the KR GPS suggests. If you are using fluorocarbon or mono I would increase the size of the reduction guides to KL 20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M. This will make for a little smoother casting since fluorocarbon and mono lines are stiffer than braid, but braid will still cast extremely well with this setup. Could also move the stripper out to 19.5" or 20" and adjust the others as appropriate. When you static test use the two line method, makes things a lot easier. Once I get everything set up and the guides taped in place will put the reel on, run the line through the guides, attach a light weight and just let it hang from the tip. With my finger I will hold the line against the bottom of the spool, and with the rod horizontal I look for a straight line from the bottom of the spool to the choke guide and another straight line from the choke to the tip with the line touching the bottom of each guide. This gives a nice way to visualize the line path, and is extremely close to what you will get with the static test. I also will try to get progressive spacing between the guides, so I fudge around a little with the spacing between the reduction guides and choke, but that is just me. Once you test cast you will be sold on he KR concept. As I have mentioned before the KR GPS gives a very good starting point, but I do tweak a little to get what I want.
Norm

Lawrence, I'd be happy to run your numbers for you, but I don't know what the "reel measure method" is. Nor do I see any correlation between the information required for the KR GPS, and the numbers you provided. Your largest number equates to less than 5 1/2 inches.

As evidenced by the cut and paste from the KR Concept software that Don provided me, you can see they ask for measurements in U.S. inches, and information you just don't have in your post. If you post the type of information the software requires, I'll gladly run them for you.

Norman, thank you for the additional response. As always, much appreciated. And yes, the guide sizes you listed are the sizes the KR GPS listed, and are the same sizes it listed for the two spinning rods I've built thus far. Like you, I absolutely love the way the two rods I've built using the KR concept perform. It's remarkable how much better they cast than any of the factory rods I've owned, and still own.

Being a lover of fluorocarbon line, (even on spinning gear) I'd always had problems with line slap on my factory rods. I'm certain the larger ringed and shorter framed guides were the primary contributors to the line slap, but I'm just as certain that some of my earlier line choices contributed as well. When I started using Seaguar Tatsu line slap pretty much went away. And now coupled with the KR concept, no more line slap.

As far as the number or running guides goes ..... oh yeah, I'll definitely be using more than suggested by the GPS software. While braid certainly casts better on spinning gear, I don't like the way it fishes. I think it makes detecting pressure bites more difficult, and despite its smaller diameter, it just seems to catch more wind than fluorocarbon line. Since I won't be using braid I won't have to worry about passing any leader connection knots, so I'm going to be using 4.5 BKT guides with Alconite rings.

I used that size as runners on the two 6'6" spinning rods I've built, and I ended up putting 5 running guides (not including the choke guide) on those rods. That's probably more than 99.99% of other builders would use, but I like the line path to follow the blank very closely. No doubt it detracts from sensitivity, but it adds more power, and I like more power.

Must be a Tim the Tool Man Taylor kinda thing. lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2017 06:54AM by David Baylor.

Lawrence, if you are planning on using KLH guides use the KR GPS at Anglers Resource. The reel measurement meathod is used with the other guide placement system at Anglers Resources which is basically for New Guide Concept (NGC) setups.
Use this link. [anglersresource.net]
Norm

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lawrence, if you are planning on using KLH guides
> use the KR GPS at Anglers Resource. The reel
> measurement meathod is used with the other guide
> placement system at Anglers Resources which is
> basically for New Guide Concept (NGC) setups.
> Use this link.
> [anglersresource.net]
> Norm


Thanks for the link Norm. It comes up just fine on my laptop.
Larry

I'm not OLD........I'm CHRONOLOGICALLY GIFTED