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Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Earl Estrada (172.58.168.---)
Date: May 16, 2017 06:48AM

Hello everyone! I am new to rodbuilding, but excited to get started.

My first and simple project, is a 10' Ultralight Riversider. It is ABSOLUTELY my favorite freshwater "tool around and fish" pole ever. I first used it for Salmon fishing when I lived in Watertown, New York, and would go up to Dexter Bay or the Black River to fish. Good times! Now I live in Florida and use it to catch crappie and bass. Well, I broke the last 8" off the pole, which includes the tip top and one eyelet. It is such a perfect break, spacing wise, hat I could just put a tip top on, and call it a day, and maybe it will be a light to ultra light. First few questions:

1. When I measured the tip, I got .0931 - .0934 for the taper, so tube size 6 should be right. But I get 10mm OD for the ring, and 7mm ID. Does that seem right for an ultralight? I know my measurements are good, but that just seems large.

2. Will putting a tip-top on "fix" the pole? I know it will change the characteristics, but how much?

My ultimate project (after doing a few first): restore two vintage Star Rods! They were used for Tarpon fishing by my Grandparents and my mother. But they are now in disrepair. I think they are from the 60', no later than the early 70's. The eyelets are broke, would like to put "close to original" type, but use new modern braid resistant rings, and would like to redo all the thread work with UV protected thread, and the epoxy has some overs-pray on it from who knows what, but the entire rod is epoxied. I posted links to pics, that way you guys can give me some pointers, advice, and what year these were made. These rods from what I can tell, are handmade, and the name plates are even hand painted! So the next questions, and I am sure there are a lot of opinions, but here goes.

1. Is there any particular reason I should keep them as close to original as possible? The handles, reel seats, and eyelets all need to be replaced. My thought was to do one as close to original, and one completely custom.

2. Should I attempt to strip the epoxy off the ENTIRE rod, or just repair the eyelets, reel seats and handles?

Pics: May load slow, very large files.
[www.rodbuilding.org] Pic1 - Hand painted Logo?
[www.rodbuilding.org] Pic2 - Corroded Reel Seat and foam handle
[www.rodbuilding.org] Pic3 - Hand threaded
[www.rodbuilding.org] Pic4 - 1st broken eye and thread detail
[www.rodbuilding.org] Pic5 - 2 other bad eyes
[www.rodbuilding.org] Pic6 - Both Poles

Thanks everyone, and I am glad to be here and learn.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 08:26AM by Earl Estrada.

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 16, 2017 10:36PM

If I understand your first two questions properly, I would not simply put a tiptop on. Go to the library and read the rod repair article. That failure can be fixed to return the rod to almost its initial power and action. As for guide sizes, if you like it, don't change it, but it could work well with very small guides, as small as will pass any knots you want to use. Then the rod will become faster and more sensitive due to the lighter guides.

On the second set of rods, I would try to keep as much of the decorative wraps, signatures, and color as possible. First remove all the guides. Then the reel seat and grips. Now try to get the finish as smooth as possible without removing the color. Refinish with Lumiseal or equivalent, replace the grips and seat, and wrap the guides with threads and designs that match the original rod. The guides probably won't be exact matches, but can be close. If they are really large, as is often the case on old rods, use smaller guides.

Finally, read the instructions on submitting photos. When done right they are so much easier to use.

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Earl Estrada (156.75.79.---)
Date: May 17, 2017 08:23AM

Well, Thank for the advice!

I had read that article. This is a carbon rod, and I don`t have any spare carbon rods laying around, so I was more curious how badly adding a top-up would really affect it, but I will try to get a hold of a carbon rod, and just do the sleeve repair method.

I have uploaded photos to my profile, I will try and edit the first post to have them in the proper format.

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 17, 2017 11:15AM

Earl,
Go to your local salvation army or good will and pick up a couple of rods for a few $$ each.

On a tip like this often, you get a better repair job if you use a glass tip on a graphite rod. The softer glass often will compensate for the slight stiffening that you get when you do an over sleever repair on the rod.

Take care

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 17, 2017 11:17AM

If I have an older rod, with missing finish etc, I generally prefer to strip the rod down to the graphite or glass and rebuild from there.

I never put any finish back on, but just use a matt glass or graphite finish. I do the final sanding with wet and dry sand paper used wet. Just put the end of the rod in a 5 gallon bucket of water and it works well to keep the paper wet and to contain the mess you get from sanding with wet and dry. I first use Citrus stripper or slight heat to scrape the finish from the rod. Then I use the sandpaper for the final cleanup and finish.

Good luck

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 18, 2017 07:39AM

Roger is correct on the use of glass on a graphite/carbon rod for repair. It is the preferred material, but I have used graphite and found no problem with using it. There are so many variables like wall thickness, modulus, etc, that you theroretically cannot predict exactly what will result. But practically, whatever you can find that will fit will work much better than simply adding a tiptop.

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 18, 2017 07:39AM

Roger is correct on the use of glass on a graphite/carbon rod for repair. It is the preferred material, but I have used graphite and found no problem with using it. There are so many variables like wall thickness, modulus, etc, that you theroretically cannot predict exactly what will result. But practically, whatever you can find that will fit will work much better than simply adding a tiptop.

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 18, 2017 07:39AM

Roger is correct on the use of glass on a graphite/carbon rod for repair. It is the preferred material, but I have used graphite and found no problem with using it. There are so many variables like wall thickness, modulus, etc, that you theroretically cannot predict exactly what will result. But practically, whatever you can find that will fit will work much better than simply adding a tiptop.

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Earl Estrada (156.75.79.---)
Date: May 18, 2017 12:09PM

Thank you for the info! That means that this will be my first repair job, and I am excited t give it a shot! I did put an ad on out local CL, and got about 5 people who are willing to part with their rods and reels for about $5 each. One guy has about 35, and he is willing to part with the whole lot, reels and all for $50! Now I have plenty of rod stock, and practice, as well as reels to rebuild.

I found out from my mother that the Star Rods I want to restore were given to her as a Christmas present in 1968! I have also been sourcing parts for the Star Rods, to see what I want to get. So far, I love the selection @ MudHole, and they are local (45 minutes away), so I can go look at what I need as well. I found the perfect, damn near original rod guides from them! They are the CER Spin/Cast Guides [www.mudhole.com] . Only thing is, they look so cheap, and I want to build these rods to last. Any one ever use those CER rings?

My other choice is the Vertus RingLock Light Saltwater Guides. They are not as "Classic" in appearance, but they would add a bit of modern to the rod, they look stylish, their Nanolite ring claims to be good against braid, and stainless frame will surely last for years to come. Anyone have any experience with these?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2017 01:58PM by Earl Estrada.

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 18, 2017 04:45PM

I've not used the CER guides, and I would not use them on your rods. The fat, white, rings are not my style. I prefer the Vertus guides you are considering, and you have nothing to fear from using them. And they look good.

One thing to consider, and I'm basing this comment on the original rod reel seat pic, is that all rods and reels should be thoroughly rinsed after use in salt water. While the components of today are very good, they should be rinsed to keep them looking like new forever.

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Earl Estrada (172.58.172.---)
Date: May 18, 2017 07:38PM

So, tonight I removed the guides. The thread color looks like Navy Blue. But how can I tell what size thread I need to buy? A, B, C, D? I know those are thread diameters, but how can you measure that?

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 18, 2017 08:00PM

Since you are new to rod building with very little,if any, wrapping experience, I would recommend that you use size D thread. It is much easier to wrap and will still look very good. I think with the size of the guides you will be using and the length of the wraps required, using a size A thread will drive you crazy. Do not make it any harder on yourself then necessary, enjoy the experience.
Norm

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Earl Estrada (172.58.172.---)
Date: May 18, 2017 08:33PM

So, another question! These rods are epoxy coated their entire length. What should I do? Wrap from this point , and then blend the epoxy finish, to the old epoxy finish? Pic below...


[www.rodbuilding.org]

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 19, 2017 03:01PM

I would put the new guides exactly where the old ones were and blend the end of the new epoxy to the old. Should look fine. Do not epoxy the whole rod. If your rods are finished with epoxy, I would be surprised. If you use epoxy you will create a wavy mess. If you have to add finish, try a little permagloss on the underside to see if it is compatible with the existing finish. If it is, it can be used. If it is not, then maybe someone else has an idea. But not epoxy.

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Re: Hello Everyone!
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 19, 2017 03:04PM

You said you live near Mudhole, right? I suggest you take the rods to Mudhole and ask if they have an expert who could evaluate them and advise. I'll bet they would help, and it would be a lot more effective than the help we are able to give.

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