I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

2018 Expo
Common Cents Info
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
All American Guides
American Tackle
Angler’s Roost
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
Anglers Workshop
BatsonRainshadowALPS
Bingham Enterprises
Canada Rodbuildersupply
CRB
Cork4Us
CTS Rod Blanks
CTS MAVEN
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Custom Labeling System
DBlue Fishing
Decal Connection
DONART
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
Hitena USA
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Mickels Custom Rods
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
Pacific Bay
ProProducts
Reelseatblanks.com
Renzetti Inc.
Rocky Mountain Rod Shop
Rod Components USA
Rodgeeks
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Magazine Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
St Croix Rods
Tackleworks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VisualWRAP/VisualWEAVE
ZipCast

Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 03:08PM

Thanks to all for reading and hopefully offering insight.
With the amount of time required between the five coats of finish (PorKote High Build) for this tiger wrap I doing, what would you veteran / experienced builder consider the minimum number of hours for the epoxy to cure ENOUGH between coats? Let’s use 70*F and less than 50% humidity as the standard. The included ProKote instruction sheet suggests 24 hours for their medium viscosity finish. The high build’s pot life is much shorter than the medium build and I would expect the cure time to be proportionally similar, but I am not certain that is the case. If only one additional coat (two total) were to be applied, I would not be bothering you with the question. However, with stacking-up five coats and being unfamiliar with the properties (shrinkage in particular) of these 1 to 1 epoxies as compared to the 4 to 1 structural epoxies, I would like to avoid any disasters rearing their ugly heads after completion. At the same time, I would like to avoid waiting an additional five days to finish this wrap.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 03:49PM

wow 5 coats that is a lot 2 should be more than sufficient with High build and provide a deep glass appearance if it were me I would let cure for the MFG. recommended time and then lightly scuff the first and apply the second at least you will be assured that their isn't any soft spots that might fish eye on you with the following coats.
Remember that rushing through it is where the problems arise. never make it a hurry up thing!!!

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 03:51PM

Most I've ever done is 3 coats, and I've cheated the 24 hour thing by 6 to 8 hours (18 to 16 hour cure) with the temperature 75+.

Some folks apply a second coat as soon as the first is tacky, but I've no experience doing that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 04:28PM

Never done 5, have done 3. I wait until the cure is not longer tacky, but will still finger print.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 06, 2017 04:29PM

Humidity won't affect the set or cure time of epoxy. Temperature will, however. Generally you are okay to apply additional epoxy as soon as the previous application allows you to do it. This means as long as the previous epoxy does not grab your brush or your application technique doesn't upset it in some way, you're okay to apply another application.

............

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Jay Lancaster (---.triad.rr.com)
Date: May 06, 2017 05:41PM

To hurry it up a bit so you can get on to your next coat you can up the heat a bit if you have a simple space/ceramic heater. Let the rod turn until it's cured enough to not sag. Then put the rod & heater in a small room (I have used a utility room or bathroom in the past). Turn the heater on and let the temp rise. It'll likely get over 100 degrees in there. That will get the cure going and shave hours off your time.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 05:52PM

In the future, to speed things up, use Flex Coat. Pro Kote takes so long to cure that it makes one wonder if he had screwed up. But it always does, if you wait long enough.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 06:49PM

Thanks Mathew, Donald, Eric, Tom, Jay and Michael for responding. I can always rely on you guys. I realize five coats are more than typical but hoping it will create a really deep “lens” between the base-wrap and top-wrap of this tiger wrap. Is it not advisable to stack that many layers of finish regarding either the epoxy itself or visually? Remember, I am unfamiliar with the properties of these 1 to 1 epoxies compared to the 4 to 1s with which I have more experience. I have learned from that other experience it is best to allow the initial cure of the epoxy to be at ambient, warmed only if too cold, but NOT heating to speed things up as it is ultimately detrimental. After cured, an accelerated temperature post cure is beneficial. I have also learned, and should be obvious, a chemical bond (applying the second layer on the first layer while still “green”, is much stronger than a physical bond, (fully cured first layer sanded or scuffed before second is applied).
All of my initial questions have been addressed except the shrinkage factor. Anyone care to comment?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 06, 2017 07:33PM

These epoxies are no different that the 4 to 1 variety. One part contains fillers to allow for a 1 to 1 mix which the formulators devised in order to make things easier to do in the small batches most builders work with.

...................

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 09:30PM

Thanks, Tom. Can I assume the shrinkage factor to be extremely low, if not virtually nonexistent as well? While I would normally apply a second coat just past the “No finger print” stage, an additional three coats may become an issue, hence my shrinkage concerns. Many consider epoxies in general to not shrink, but in fact they do, even if extremely little. Although 0.0002 may not cause any noticeable problems for two coats, five coats = 0.001 which may give rise to the ugly heads previously mentioned. Apparently, none of you veterans have (possibly foolishly) attempted this many coats and possibly for good reason. Maybe it will ruin the appearance and effect of the tiger wrap. But that is why I am asking. Most of you on this site should know me well enough by now to know; nothing is made easy for me, and it is admittedly self inflicted.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 10:14PM

Mark, some advice................chill out! Building rods should be fun in addition to the other elements of the experience. The questions you ask sometimes seem to be a large amount of worry.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 10:42PM

phil, what you say seems to be exagerated with a lot of rod builders...too much analizing. lol.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 11:42PM

Phil and Ben,
Understood and accepted but only 75% agreed. At the risk of sounding rude or unappreciative, I have as much fun planning, calculating and “worrying” as applying the last coat of finish and admiring how nice the fruits of my labor turned out. Depending on how it is viewed or ones perspective, I am very analytical and picky, anal-retentive if you will, to a fault or not. There is the RIGHT way, the WRONG way, and then there is MY way. But I truly enjoy every aspect of every project I fabricate, rod building included, worrying incorporated.
For what it is worth, I think I’ll leave it at three coats.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 06, 2017 11:49PM

Mark, did not mean it as being rude. It just seems to mean that you seek information on subjects that are infinitesimal to the process of custom rod building. It is not a science!

It should be a pleasurable rewarding experience.

I really do appreciate your interest in broadening your knowledge, but think you sometimes go beyond the necessary, example the question regarding shrinkage.,



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2017 11:54PM by Phil Erickson.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 07, 2017 02:11AM

Some have been doing it for a long time and some not and YES they have questions that some times seem like extreme but that is all part of the learning curve with rod building.
Stop and think how you asked several questions when you started this endeavor were they beyond the necessary ??
Don't know who said it but it is oh so true.
The man that asks questions continues to learn and grow
Lets all learn and grow together

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Eric MONTACLAIR (---.fbx.proxad.net)
Date: May 07, 2017 03:34AM

With HB I normally wait say 8 hours between coats but if I need to sand between I wait more (at least 12 hours but 24 hours better).
It's work for me (depend on temp).

________________________________________
@+
Eric
[www.emfishing.fr]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 07, 2017 09:55AM

hi mark..i typed an lol after my remark mostly because i,m laughing at myself that i see in you.. i,ve been tinkering with rods for over 50 years and experienced a good bit of the quirks of rod building and when i see others having to experience these things it brings up a chuckle and reminds me of my little conflicts with the same question although i must admit your questions are a little deeper than mine were...you make my head hurt sometimes. lol

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 07, 2017 10:39AM

Thanks, Eric. Information I can use.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 07, 2017 11:55AM

Mark - If you want an epoxy that set ups quicker than try Treadmaster. A drawback is that it has a shorter pot life, not a problem for me. Another option is to try the Billy Vivona mix, which is a mix of Treadmaster and ProKote at a ratio of 1:1:1:1 (TM A:TMB:PKA:PkB). This mix gives properties intermediate between TM and PK. Billy has experimented with all the different finishes and settled on this mix as his standard.

Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ProKote Minimum Cure Time?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 07, 2017 02:26PM

Thank you Norman, your research, insight and wisdom is always appreciated and utilized. I never considered mixing different brands of rod finish epoxy as it is a big no-no with the structural epoxies which with I am more familiar.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster