Hi everyone. I'm building a walleye jig pitching rod from a 6'9" mlxf blank, and planning to use 8 pound braid. Using Minima match guides for the reduction train and their number 4 fly guides for runners.

I went to use the 27x guide layout, which has the choker set about 46.8 inches from the spool shaft for the 1.735" spool I'm using. It looks like I need to use a size 20 Minima match guide as a 16 is landing 24 inches or maybe more from the spool.

I wanted a small, light guide train on this rod so I thought i would try the kr concept with Minimas, since they recommend a size 16 stripper guide for light braid.

Problem is when i align the spool shaft to a table edge NO part of the blank crosses the table edge. I figured the kr layout would give me a more compact reduction train but it seems I can't even use that layout with this rod and reel configuration.

So the question is, is there a good way to make the reduction train work well with a size 16 stripper, or should i just slap a 20 on there in the correct placement and be happy with it? The reel is a 30 series Pflueger Supreme by the way.

you could use these and be well satisfied with the results

MicroWave Casting Guides
(0) SKU: #MWC



MicroLite Micro Guides
(0) SKU: #NBML-SET

either set will work difference is the runner size top set is a #5 and bottom set is a #3 your tiptop will more than likely be a #6 ring hope this helps

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

It is the reel Some reel makers make there reels with no TILT on the reel itself So what happens is the shaft just shoots straight off into space
You can check buy placing the reel on a flat surface Hold a straight edge on the shaft and see if it is level with the feet -- If so I would not get it I like Shamano reels ?? As fare as I know they still have a tilt

Bill - willierods.com

Using a 20 isn't going to lose you any distance nor add that much weight, and certainly won't add any weight in the upper half of the rod where it matters most.

Failing that, you could always go the Angler's Resource website and use their guide spacing generator to get a nice sizing and spacing. With braid being so supple, you have a great deal of leeway in your guide set-up.

..............

Use the KR GPS at Anglers Resource to get a good starting point for your layout. Since you are using the Minima match guides with the F guides you are doing a KR micro guide set up. The 27x system or the table edge method iare very good if you are doing a NGC setup but you are not, so use the KR concept! The KR concept is a rapid choke system so your stripper is going to be closer, some where around 19 - 20" from spool tip, and the choke point is also going to be closer to the reel. If you use the 16M stripper pair it with an 8M and a 5M, if using a 20M for the stripper pair it with a 10M and a 5M for your reduction train. I have found that I usually use at least one or two more runners than recommended by the KR GPS. Either of these set ups with the Minima M reduction guides and the size 4F runners will give you a very light and high performance guide train. I think you will be very impressed with the over performance and feel.
Norm

Some interesting comments, thank you. Norm, I may be confused but the article i read about Building the kr concept does use the table edge to set the choker and if I remembet correctly the stripper guide as well. That's where my confusion started. The gps software is so drastically different than what the build directions state that something doesn't make sense to me.

I'm also a bit confused about the 27x method not going along with the match and f style Minimas. From what I've researched the 27x and Minima pairing are popular and the guide and technique I've used on all the rods i have built so far.

Tempted to use the 27x method with the size 20 stripper but i guess i can always test cast other variations.

Believe me I have built over 150 KR spin rods during the past few years using both Fuji KR guides and Minima M and F guides and they perform exceptionally well, and In my opinion better than any other 'concept' I have ever used. The Minima M guides of a given ring size are of very similar height to the Fuji KL-H guides, so they are a lighter suitable substitute for use in the KR concept. The KR concept has only been around for just a short period of time in the US and is a modification of the NGC. The major difference is that the KR concept uses a high frame small ring guide, and rapidly chokes the line down to the small low profile running guides. This rapid choking moves the stripper guide and choke guide closer to the reel which straightens the line faster so it travels more smoothly through the low profile running guides. This gives you better line control for smoother and longer casts. It works exceptionally well with braid and light mono. If you are planning on using heavier mono line you might be better off with the NGC. The Microwave guide system is also based on a rapid choke concept and also works well, but to me it is more of a one size fits all system. Do not get me wrong the Microwave system works very well, but to me lacks versatility. The position of the stripper guide is dependent on a number of factors such as reel size, type and strength of the line used, and the height of the Stripper guide. Try the KR GPS to get a tentative layout for the reduction train, and static test to determine running guide positions. When static testing use the two line method it gives better results.When you are happy with the layout take it outside and test cast. Since the guides are not wrapped on you can set up your 27x method and test cast it. This should give you an objective comparison as to which performs better. I have done this a number of times and is one of the reasons I almost exclusively use the KR concept..Hope this helps. Good luck with your build and you have additional questions just ask.
Norm

I have posted this KR concept YouTube link previously, but just in case you have not seen it before here it is again.
[m.youtube.com]
Norm

The 27X factor will work great with anything, but since you are using braid specifically you may want to strongly consider what Norman is advising.

.............

Thank you for jumping back on Norman and Tom. The 27x layout has worked well for me but aspects of the kr system are appealing also.

To layout the kr system, is there any manual work i should do, or do i simply follow the gps measurements? If I'm using the Minima guides do I need to be concerned about the "mid rod stress that the Fuji KB guides addres?

Thank you for your help thus far!

KR suggests placing the position of the stripper guide as you always have using the NGC. Using those principals will bring a high frame small ring stripper guide closer than usual. After that ONE guide is positioned with NGC the rules change and factor reel size and line type into the equation for the balance of the reduction train.

Jim is correct on the stripper placement, since the KR and match guide frames are higher for a given ring size then the stripper will be placed closer to the reel. This smaller ring begins the choking process. Also, the bigger the reel the further away a stripper guide of a given height will need to be placed. The line used also plays a role in stripper placement, and the heavier and stiffer the line is the larger the ring needs to be at a give distance from the reel to help control the line coils. The KR GPS takes reel sizes, line types, and guide heights into account. As far as the mid section (belly) guides are concerned, the Minima 4F guides are wider and longer than normal and thus are similar to KB belly guides. On a fine tip section they can be ground down some so they wrap easier. I also do a locking wrap on single foot guides just to make sure they stay in place. Never had guides pull out even without a locking wrap. However, I have replaced a bunch of small footed microguides on some brand name microrods that have pulled out in the mid section of the rod. So a locking wrap is insurance against pull outs and they do not not hurt.
Norm

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
. When static testing use the two line
> method it gives better results> Norm



Norm can you explain what the two line method is? I've never heard of this. Thanks

Justin,
Check out the Static Guide Placement article in the library. Near the bottom.

Spencer is giving you the article that explains the two line method for static testing in detail. Basically you run the line from your reel through the guides and tie a small weight to it and just let this weight hang from the rod tip. You then tie another line to your tiptop and tie this line to a heavy weight on the floor. When you bend the rod due to the heavy weight tied to the tip top your guides will not move or twist nor will they influence the natural bending of the rod. Makes adjusting the guides easier and more accurate. It is a really neat static test method, so read the article is is quite informative.

Thanks I will check it out

here A picture is worth a 1000 words YET not written in stone Change it if NECESSARY
[anglersresource.net]
here another way to do the same thing
[www.rodbuilding.org]

have all people LOST THERE COMMON CENSE ????
You are not building a Rocket Ship -- It is a fishing rod ????

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2017 06:46PM by bill boettcher.

Common sense is about as common these days as proper grammar and spelling.

I ended up building the rod using the 27x method and am quite happy with how it casts and feels. I may build a kr concept rod some day but felt 27x worked well for what i wanted from this rod.

Thanks to everyone that contributed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 10:20AM by Tucker Jacobson.