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Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Mark Hedl (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: April 17, 2017 08:54AM

Hey everyone,

I used Fuji's newer GPS software to come up with guide sizes and layout for my new micro-guide spinning rod but there's a couple spots where something just doesn't seem right. Maybe I'm over-reacting but was hoping you guys could give me some input. Hopefully these photo links will work - the rod is in my static load jig with a weight attached to the tip. I have two spots I want to ask you guys about:

In the first photo (https://goo.gl/photos/3GeML4JKirGDHt9Q6) you see the reduction train from stripper to belly guide. Under load, there's a noticeable angle between the last reduction guide and the belly. Again, I'm just following the Fuji GPS layout but the angle just seems ... well noticeable! Since I'm new to this I don't know if that angle is normal or if I need to make adjustments. What would you guys do?

In the second photo (https://goo.gl/photos/dpCyNaDvYYocfLw7A) you see the rest of the guide train to the tip. I think I need to add another guide between the 2nd and 4th. If I do that, I end up with 10 (plus tip). Is that excessive or normal for a 7' micro-guide spinning rod? Would you add another guide at that spot also?

Thanks for any advice!
-Mark



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 08:58AM by Mark Hedl.

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 17, 2017 08:50PM

Does not look that bad. You can push the last reduction guide a little further out toward the choke guide, or bring the choke guide a little closer to the last reduction guide. This will help to reduce the angle you see, and also give you a more progressive guide placement. I would opt for moving the last reduction guide a little further out. There would be no problem with adding adding an additional running guide, lighter rods tend to have more bend in the tip section and usually need an extra guide or two. However, you may not need an extra runner. Your runners appear to be equidistant from each other, so you may be able to reposition the runners by putting the first few runners a little closer together and then progressively increasing the distance as you move toward the stiffer portion of the of the rod. No matter what you do make sure you test cast it to make sure you get good line flow. I really like the KR micro guide concept for spinning rods, a real performance enhancer. Hope this helps.
Norm

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 18, 2017 12:55AM

Looks OK my question is how far from the reel face is your lead guide ?
if it would be possible to move it toward the reel about an inch and the other including the choke guide you could move the runners a bit closer together and add in one or 2 more guides
as a rule of thumb I most times keep the first guide from the tip measured at 4 1/2 - 5 at most following toward the reel 5 in. 5 in.5 in. 5 in.and if needed another at 5 in then the choke.

The Fugi GPS thing works Ok but there is some margin of error as it is an algorithm base as the flex of blanks differs from mfg - mfg even though they are the same length and considered the same power or line class
that is why I depend more on static load placement . but these are just my observations after using the GPS placement system on 2 blanks from different Mfg both the same length and taper, line & lure weight and had to add 2 more guides to 1 and 1 to the other.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Mark Hedl (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: April 18, 2017 08:38AM

Thanks for the input both of you!

Norm, do you test cast after wrapping, or do you trust the guide adhesive that much?
Matthew, the Stripper is just a hair under 20" from the end of the spool axle.

I'm going to make adjustments tonight per your input and see what the new load test and test casts give me.
Thanks,
-Mark

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: April 18, 2017 08:51AM

The line through the reduction guides looks really good. 20 inches is probably about right, but if you want to experiment, I would not move any of the three reduction guides relative to the others. I would move the whole reduction group up or down an inch or two without altering spacing between the three.. Probably down about an inch.

If you move it out, leave the first reduction guide about where it is. If you move it in, the first reduction guide should probably move in also.

It looks to me like another running guide would be appropriate, with the whole running set individually re-positioned based on the stress test after you've settled on the reduction group position.

I'll bet if you look down that reduction set you'll see a good concentric ring picture of the three guides. Try to get the first running guide to be included in that nice, concentric ring, picture.


Just another opinion.

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 18, 2017 09:48AM

I have made adjustments to the lead guide from the reel down to as little as 17 inches because in test casts there was a considerable amount of line slap
as for test casts I usually use some making tape to help the guides remain in place you only need a small weight not a lot of weight to test with
moving the train yes move them all the same amount and when you find the sweet spot you will see it clear as a mountain lake
moving all the first part of the train back should give you some room to add another runner it isn't odd to have as many as 5-6 runner guides.
again the GPS should be used as a guide and not the final set up the load test will and should be your final placement of guides along with test casts.
did a 6 ft super UL 2-6 lb line lure weight of 1/64-1/8 last week and ended up with a total of 7 guides 4 runners that was after load test and test casts with the max 6 lb line the GPS said 3 runners that was OK but not prefect and lead guide ended up at 17 1/2" from the reel center shaft their recommendation was 183/4" from reel not that much but it made a difference when casting smoother and about 25 feet further so it all comes down to the load test vs the GPS and where you feel you have achieved the perfect placement

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 18, 2017 12:20PM

I tape the guides in place and test cast. I am not trying to blast a cast but rather get a feel for how the line flows from the reel through the guides; and tape, or bands or even tie-wraps work fine. I think every experienced fisherman knows when I rod casts well so it is not that difficult to fine tune to optimize performance.
The Fuji KR GPS gives a very good starting point, in my experience I usually need at least one extra running guide then suggested. My personal preference for guide placement is to use progressive spacing, I do not like the looks of guides placed equi-distance from each other, or a guide in the middle being closer to the next butt-ward guide than it is to the next tip-ward guide. That is one of the reasons I will move the last reduction guide slightly closer to the choke or vice versa. Just personal preference that works for me.
After I have my guides in place and before test casting I tie a casting weight on and let the weight hang from the tip of the rod. I then press the line to the bottom of the reel spool and look for a straight line from the bottom of the reel spool to the choke guide, and another straight line from the choke guide to the tip top with the line touching the bottom of each guide with no sharp angles. This is a very easy way to visualize your guide placement. A very slight angle into the stripper is ok.
Norm

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: John Johns (---.sub-174-221-143.myvzw.com)
Date: April 18, 2017 09:40PM

Why am I not seeing the pictures?

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 18, 2017 10:23PM

Copy and paste the links given in your browser.
Norm

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: April 19, 2017 08:09AM

I've only built two spinning rods, and I relied on the KR Concept GPS for both of them as far as placement of the reduction guides and belly guide are concerned. As everyone has said, the reduction guides and belly guide spacing look fine to me. The angle you're seeing with the rod under load is to be expected, and not bad at all. Although I will say .... or question how loaded the blank is?

Judging by both pictures it doesn't look very loaded to me. Of course I don't know what the power of the blank is or the intended purpose for the rod. The two spinning rods I built, I built with the intentions of using them for fishing a drop shot, shaky head jigs, and weightless and ligthly weighted smaller wacky rigged baits. Even though I fish those baits on 8# fluorocarbon line, I still load the blank as if I were trying to determine the IP number for the rod.

In other words I fully load the blank when doing static guide placement for the running guides on a spinning rod. As mentioned earlier, I have very little experience with building spinning rods (or even casting rods for that matter, lol) so I went with the spacing provided by the GPS. The GPS is for casting performance, not fish fighting performance.

As far as the second picture goes, it definitely appears that you need at least one or two more running guides. Personal preference, as well as how deeply you load the blank for the static test is going to play into the number of guides you may want or need. Load the blank to one level and you may need lets say, 4 running guides (not counting the belly guide) Load it to another level and you may need more or less, depending on if you're loading it more heavily, or more lightly.

And then there's your personal preference to consider. If you want the line to follow the natural bend of the blank closely, then you may end up with more guides than you would if you don't have the line following the bend of the blank as closely.

For me personally, looking at the running guide picture, I'd probably put 3 more guides on with it loaded as it is in the picture. .If I loaded the blank more deeply, I would probably end up with at least 4 more guides. But I like the line to follow the bend of the blank very closely.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2017 08:16AM by David Baylor.

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Mark Hedl (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: April 23, 2017 08:49PM

Hey thanks again all for the suggestions. I ended up making some adjustments at both the reduction train as well as adding another guide near the tip. Test casts were awesome! It's in the dryer now, will post a pic when it's all done.
-Mark

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: Joe Ellis (---.66.219.253.tsu.edu)
Date: May 01, 2017 09:06AM

Maybe not a question for you but why can i not see your pictures?

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Re: Spinning Guide Question - from Fuji GPS
Posted by: mike quinn (---.carolina.res.rr.com)
Date: May 01, 2017 09:51PM

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Copy and paste the links given in your browser.
> Norm

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