I have been struggling with epoxy failure on my saltwater rods. I have been plagued with moisture getting under the epoxy and causing milkyness. I also am getting cracking around the guide feet on my heavy rods (halibut rods) which I am sure is the contributing factor to the moisture issue. I am using underwraps on the guides. I do not use color preserver. I use two coats of epoxy (Aftco currently) and very carefull about filling the guide tunnels and removing bubbles as the finished rods spin.

I use commercially built rods along with my home built rods and treat them the same. They spend a lot of time in the rocket launchers in the Alaska sun and rain. The Loomis and Shimano rods do not show any of the epoxy failures that my own rods exhibit. What are they using or doing different in their process? Are my fingers contaminating the blank and thread? Is there a better epoxy that can handle the saltwater and UV abuse?

I would love some insight into improving my craft.

sounds like you not getting a complete wet out on the under wraps or the wraps might be a bit to loose
a lot of things can cause your problems

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Hello Mike.

Are you using glass blanks?, do they bend deeply?, do you coat your under wraps and let them cure before the over wrap?, do you double your over wrap?, do your guides have very thick feet?, do you cover at least 1/16th" past the end of the wrap?

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

You might give Flex Coat UV thread coating a try.

It is supposed to be more resistant to the destructive effects of the sun.

From the Flex coat web page:

"Ultra V High Build
Similar to our original high build formulation but with added UV protection for use over light colored threads. It also has an extended pot life for additional working time. Great all around epoxy thread wrap finish and perfect for heavy-duty saltwater rods."

Are you using color preserver on you guide wraps? I have seen cracking and moisture penetration of epoxy on guide wraps that have been treated with color preserver. The color preserver prevents the epoxy finish from penetrating the threads, and this can lead to cracking of the finish and allow moisture into the wrap. The guide wraps on the Loomis and Shimano rods you mention probably have not been treated with color preserver. I very rarely use CP on my guide wraps.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2017 01:07PM by Norman Miller.

Those Loomis rods have Flex Coat on them.

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

The OP mentioned that he does not use CP, so the issue would like elsewhere.

There shouldn't be any contamination of the thread or blank if you'll keep your hands off of them, and keep your hands clean. No need to be running your fingers all over the thread. Do make sure you encapsulate the wrap by extending the epoxy beyond the ends of the guide wraps.

Just in case - what brand thread are you using?

.............

Missed the part about not using CP. Do you use No CP thread?
Norm

I would use ProKote or ThreadMaster Lite with all my builds....

Is there any chance that you are using an embroidery thread? Some are treated with a silicone type lubricant and it could repel your epoxy or at least create a barrier between the thread and the finish. I really have no idea as I do not use it, but this is just something that occurred to me.

what ever type of EPOXY you use if it is a name brand it should not happen, could it be that you are just over stressing the rod to many times [ lots of big fish ] we hope ,? guides weak an breaking the bond
of epoxy an guides just asking ???

William Sidney
AK

Wow! Lots of info here. Thank you very much. A few things to add and answer.

1) I have been putting the epoxy on the completed underwrap with the guide and over wrap. I will try putting a coat on the underwrap before installing the guide.

2) Using composite blanks for halibut. Primarily graphite on lighter rods. Have not been coating the under wraps or using double overwraps. Using relatively light guides (Fuji BNGV mainly). Generally an 1/8" over the wraps on each end. Sometimes more if I am sloppy!

3) Thanks for the flex coat UV tip. I have been using Threadmaster high build and just purchases some Aftco UV resistant.

4) I do not use Color Preserver.

5) Been using brands sold by Anglers Workshop for the last 30 years. They have since been sold. Used to use Guberod. I just use straight thread, NO CP thread.

6) Could oils be transfering from my hands to the blank and thread and causing sealing issues. I try to keep them clean and sweat free. Should I try wiping down with epoxy solvent before applying epoxy?

7) Have not tried Pro Kote. No embroidery thread.

Thank you for the wealth of information. Sounds like putting a coat of epoxy on the underwrap would be a good place to start. Not sure how to keep my hands off things - I am always picking at wraps with my fingernail and my hands end up all over the place with lighter blanks as I get to the tip.

Any other thoughts are welcome!

Mike

I might look at your guide choice. I'm not a fan of Fuji, and I can't find a reference to BNVG guides on their website, but if you are fishing halibut in Alaska for decent halibut you may want to make sure your guides are rated for the gear you are using. Your problem might just be the guides moving around under load. If you want to keep the guides light anyway, take a look at the Alps line up. Different frames for different line test.

Mike,
Wash your hands with soap and water at least once an hour.

Be safe

I had that problem years ago when I first started. I found that I didn't apply the epoxy far enough past the end of the wrap on both ends. All it takes is a pin hole size opening to expose the threads to moisture and the wraps become milky. As far as the cracking of the epoxy. I found that to be because of over exposure to sun and not wrapping the guides high enough on the feet (mainly surf rods with single foot guides). My $0.02. Good luck.

The Fuji guide is BNLG. Sorry. The guides hold up fine and have large enough feet to remain secure in the wraps - the smallest I use on the halibut rods is a size 10. Obviously the halibut rods get bent but not to the point that seems like it is a noodle.

I use the rods on my charter boats in Southeast Alaska and they remain in the rocket launchers all summer exposed to sun (rarely) and lots of rain which provides the only cleaning due to no water at our dock. The commercially built rods get the same treatment and the wraps hold up much better overall and the guide quality is generally lesser than what I use.

As I stated earlier I am confident my epoxy is going well past the end wraps.

I will definetely try a coat of epoxy on the underwrap first. I assumed the epoxy would soak through the overwrap and then through the underwrap. Lazy!

Water will go everywhere there isn't something else there first.

There are techniques to getting the finish to soak into the underwraps such as heating the freshly applied finish with a torch or heat gun. This makes the finish momentarily thinner and will soak in with capillary action easier. Just don't scorch the thread, rod, or finish.

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

I think you are on to something with the underwraps not being coated first. Coat them and extend the epoxy a little past the thread onto the blank. Make sure the underwrap is hardened before applying the top thread. Let us know next year if this worked for you. Good thread.

How are you measuring, mixing, applying, and drying the epoxy? Are you adding anything like solvents to it?