What are your thoughts what is to much weight to add?

What rod, technique, etc. There are a bunch of reasons you wouldn't want to do it on most rods.

Sitting in a kayak so rod tip will always be up.

If that is the case I would just mount a tube style rod holder it would take a lot of weight to offset the pull from the line and the balance of being up right.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

John,
I look pretty dimly on adding 14 lbs of weight the butt of the rod.

Maybe 13 lbs, but surely not 14 lbs.

-----------------------
0 weight added to the butt of the rod is best.

Rather than adding weight to the butt of the rod, make the handle a bit longer to achieve balance to the rod.

Good luck

Current setup is 12" butt to reel stem. That's what he wants and I can see him being a little jammed up in a kayak. He is a large person. I was just curious what others felt about adding weight.

If it's a rod that will be used for tensioned line techniques ..... spinnerbait, crankbait, chatterbait etc. then none. There's no way you could balance a rod against the pull of a bait. A pulling force that changes from bait to bait, speed of retrieve, length of cast. etc.

If it's a rod that will be used for slack or semi slack line techniques, Texas rigs, jigs, wacky rigging etc. then as much as is needed to achieve the desired results. As with degree of balance, the definition of too much weight is subjective. I personally wouldn't worry if someone thinks you may be adding too much weight. I think your preference should make the decision for you.

One rod may only take a 1/2 oz to achieve the balance point you're looking for. A different one may take 1 1/2 oz. It all depends on rod length, rear grip type and material, reel seat placement, the weight of the guide train, and where you hold the rod when in use. Adding weight at the butt of a rod doesn't affect its performance as much as it does at the reel seat, or in the guide train.

I will be adding 2 oz. inside the very butt of the blank on a build I am currently doing. It's 7'3" rod that I will be using for flipping and pitching to bass. I can honestly say that after doing quite a bit of testing, that the rod feels more sensitive, is easier to flip and pitch with, and will be much less fatiguing over a couple of long days of tournament use.

Yes if you pick the rod and reel up vertically you can feel the added weight, But hold it as if you're fishing and it feels lighter.

Addition: With all due respect, I have to disagree with the premise that zero weight is best. IF a rod and reel combination balances the way you want it without adding weight, that's fine. IF it's the way YOU want it.

For me personally, close enough is not good enough. I know the benefits of using a tip light rod for slack and semi slack line techniques. They are real and quantifiable.

I look at it this way ..... I belong to a couple of fishing related web sites. And on those sites there are many anglers that think that fluorocarbon line offers no benefits, and that it is simply a type of line to get more anglers money. Well ........ I KNOW those people are wrong. They may not prefer fluorocarbon line, or they may not find the benefits worthwhile to them, but to act as if the benefits don't exist is IMO, fool hardy at best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2017 12:55PM by David Baylor.

John

Adding weight is not a good thing. And adding weight ought to be the option of last resort where every possibility to achieve the desired balance point is exhausted before weight is added.

However, as David B noted above, there is a difference between the objectively measured weight (or mass) versus the subjective perception of weight for specific baits, techniques and personal preferences, for which there is sometimes no remaining option other than the addition of weight.

I'm with David 100% on this one.

David,
I will disagree with you with one point on adding weight to the butt of a rod.

You mentioned that you put weight on the inside of the rod blank. The theory if fine - but in practice this method leads to issues.

The basic problem with this method of rod balancing is that the maximum balancing effect with the minimum amount of weight is achieved with 100% of all of the weight at the extreme butt end of the rod.

When folks start adding weight by inserting weight on the inside of the rod blank, it is easy to have the weight come further and further forward as more weight is added to the butt of the rod to try to achieve balance.

I know because when I first started building and balancing rods, that is exactly what happened to me.

You are better off by adding weight from the butt of the blank back, in the form of a screw in balance kit where all of the weight is screwed onto the end of a balancing nut on the butt of the rod.

Or, another way to add minimal weight at the extreme butt end of the rod, is to use a grip that does not have a butt cap on the grip. Then, use "lead tape" and wrap it around the extreme butt section of the blank to be no larger than the inside dimension of any butt cap that you might glue onto the butt of the rod to complete the appearance of the rod.

By using the lead tape, all of the weight is in the last 1/2 inch or last 3/4 inch of the butt section of the blank - depending on the width of the lead tape that you use.

When the rod is balanced - with the reel and weight that you are going to use on the rod - check the fit of the butt cap. If the butt cap is loose or sloppy, just add a wrap or more of masking tape over the tape to make for a nice fitting butt cap. Then, epoxy glue the butt cap on the butt of the rod and clean up the excess glue.

Lead tape merchants:

[www.google.com];*

Butt caps:

[www.mudhole.com]

Weighted butt cap:

[www.mudhole.com]

Or:
[www.google.com];*

It is always best to add the weight in such a way that it can be easily removed should the rod have to be repurposed. You wouldn't like it for fishing spooks and such.

Maybe I'm not with it anymore, how can a person flip and have a extremely heavy tipped rod at the same time? I thought the left hand on a right handed person being ahead of the reel and carrying some load so the reel was a natural counterweight negated tip heaviness naturally.

Lynn, your support is very much appreciated.

Roger, I can understand my method of adding weight having issues. I think a far bigger issue than the one you mentioned of the weight possibly extending far up into the butt of the blank, is that if I were to put on a lighter reel, it would be difficult to add more weight in the same fashion. My only recourse would be to add one of the weighted butt systems you mentioned in your post.

I wouldn't use my method of adding weight if I were building a rod for someone else. And if I did, I would make clear all the possible down the road problems in doing so. I build for my personal use. And all of the rods I've built for slack and semi slack line techniques are balanced for the one and only reel they will ever have mounted on them.

As for weight extending further up into the blank with the more weight you add. That is most certainly true. And there is no doubt that adding weight by extending the butt will lead to less weight being needed to achieve the preferred balance point. And while such a system is clearly more versatile, extending the butt can lead to rod usage problems. I use Tungsten weights because of their size to weight ratio. If I spend $200+ on the components for a rod, and another 8 hours of my time (I'm slow) I'm not going to fret over spending another $10 for the cost of Tungsten weights.

Spencer, to answer your question. I fished my first bass tournament in 1984 and have been fishing them (pretty seriously) ever since. In that time I have fished with many people, been to many seminars given by top name pros, and watched countless hours of tournament coverage on television. I have seen very few people hold the rod as you described. Gary Klein is the only one that comes to mind. Even Dee Thomas, the "father" of flipping and the man that taught Gary Klein about flipping doesn't hold his rod in that manner. But that's not the point.

Your description is in reference to how the rod is held while actually working the bait. Not when making the actual flip or pitch. I know of no one that holds the rod ahead of the reel when making a flip or pitch. Flipping is all in the wrist. Pitching is in the wrist and elbow. You palm the reel, dip the tip of the rod low, and lift the tip to propel the bait. A tip light rod accelerates easier making it much less fatiguing, and IMO aids in touch and accuracy.

For me personally, I am right handed and use right hand retrieve reels, but when flipping and pitching I hold the rod in my left hand to make the presentation. My left hand never leaves its position on the reel. If flipping, my right hand controls line and follows it back to the reel. While working the bait my thumb and index finger hold the line just in front of where it enters the reel. If pitching I move my right hand to the reel handle. The only time my off hand touches the rod, if at all, is when setting the hook or when flipping a fish into the boat.

Believe me, I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way is the correct or only way to approach something. And I would never suggest that somebody does something (like adding weight to the butt of a rod) that technically detracts from that piece of equipment's potential performance if there wasn't a real benefit. And adding weight does detract from the potential performance of a rod blank. Just look what adding guides does to your blanks performance?

But you have to have guides and a reel on a rod to use it. And that's what we're talking about ...... using a fishing rod. And just as there are real and quantifiable benefits to fluorocarbon line, there are real and quantifiable benefits to using a rod and reel with a specific balance point for specific presentations.

Sorry for the long post. It's just that this is a topic I feel strongly about. This isn't something like believing in Bigfoot because my buddy said he saw one. This is like me saying I believe in Bigfoot because I have its dead body laying in front of me.

And no, I don't believe in Bigfoot. lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2017 07:16AM by David Baylor.

Thanks for the clarification Dave, I was taught by Stan Fagerstrom, where he picked it up I have no idea. The man was a wizard with any kind of rod in his hand, or fish species in front of him.

David,
In case you miss the point about the addition of weight.

Although I have added weight to many rods in my early rod building, I no longer add weight to a rod. I still use balanced rods, but if the bare rod does not balance with my initial layout, I will simply extend the handle a bit to achieve a balanced rod.

Having said that - I still maintain that one wants any weight that is added to the rod to be within the extreme 1/2 inch butt of the rod.

If you don't want to extend your handle, cut 1/2 inch off of the grip before gluing the grip to the rod. Then, add lead tape as needed for the last 1/2 inch of the rod, and then put a butt cap over the top of the lead tape that you have added to the butt of the rod. If you ever want to remove the weight, remove the butt cap, peel off the lead tape, replace the lead tape with masking tape and put the butt cap, or a new butt cap back on the butt of the rod.

My only wish, is that if weight is added to a fishing rod, do not extend the weight any further forward than the stern 1/2 inch of the rod butt.

Weight that is further up the rod, simply adds weight with minimal balancing help.

--

It is all about the teeter totter principal that we all learned in kindergarten. Light person on the back of the teeter totter to balance out a teeter totter with a heavier person on the other end, or a heavier person, or persons much closer to the center of the teeter totter to balance the teeter totter.

Good luck

Spencer, I appreciate your post. In my most recent post I may have made it sound like I only add the weight to aid in actually performing a flipping or pitching motion. While it definitely does that, I also add weight because for me and the way I hold the rod, it makes holding the rod in a fishing position easier and less fatiguing. And I know it makes detecting a bite easier. Especially those light pressure bites that can sometimes be the norm.

In the end it's all about our personal preferences and style of fishing. That's why I love building my own rods. I can match my rods to the specific reels that will be used on them, and build them to fit my personal preferences.

Roger, I appreciate your post as well, and I don't miss the point you're trying to make. You and I have participated in similar threads in the past, and you've always been consistent in your stance on adding weight to a rod. You're not abhorrent to the idea, but it's definitely seems as if you avoid doing it at all costs.

When I say "at all costs" I'm referring to the stance that simply pushing the reel seat further from the butt can solve most if not all rod and reel balance situations. I respectfully disagree. I've done experiments with reel seat placement as a result of the aforementioned threads you and I have participated in. One must move a reel seat considerable distances for it to equate to what just a little weight added at the butt would accomplish. Moving a reel seat those distances can make a rod unusable for presentations like flipping and pitching. Or at least for the way I and many others I've seen perform them. It's a rear grip travel path issue. If you can't move the handle of the rod freely and unencumbered, you can't perform the presentation consistently and IMO, properly.

The move to the lighter reels of today would require a reel seat to be pushed even further up the blank. Couple the lighter reels of today with lighter split rear grips and the problem of balancing a rod and reel without adding weight is exacerbated.

As for how far forward one should limit placing their weight? Yes, the further the weight is positioned from the butt, the more weight needed to have the same affect as weight at the very butt of the rod. I certainly won't say you're wrong for setting your limit at 1/2" from the butt. I'll just say that I find that a little extreme.

David,
If you want to add weight in a nice convenient fashion and if you use split grips, just pick up a metal lathe, and machine your butt cap out of a heavier metal that ends up with a nice finish.

Glue it on and you have the perfect finish to the end of your rod and you have balance as well.

Be safe

Or for a nice look:

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