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Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Ken Brown 2 (---.115.230.21.res-cmts.mtp2.ptd.net)
Date: March 10, 2017 01:24PM

I have my 2nd rod drying the guide wraps. The sage green color has darkened substantially to almost black. I will be using the rod so it's not a big deal but if I want to give any future rods to other people I will need to make sure the color is what is expected. The next rod I build I will have to invest in some color preserver. What is the best way to apply CP? Do you normally wrap the guides with the wrap then apply the CP? Is a single coating of CP enough or should I apply multiple coats?

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Ken Preston (---.opera-mini.net)
Date: March 10, 2017 01:43PM

Guides wrapped on rod. I apply CP in a "drenching coat" (dripping wet / remove excess after 30 / 45 seconds while rod is rotating). After the first coat has completely dried (could be as long as 24hrs) you should be able to tell if a second coat will be needed. I've found that unless the threads are very light (white / yellow) a second coat is normally not needed --- but a second coat will not harm the project

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Michael Blomme (---.direcway.com)
Date: March 10, 2017 01:55PM

Hi Ken,

I use color preserver on all of my rods. When I pick out the colors of the thread, I want to see those colors when I finish a rod. Now all CPs on the market work. I think that ChromaSeal gives me the best retention, but many others on the market work just fine.

To apply my CP I use those little throw away brushes that many of our sponsors sell. I use them many times before discarding. I load the brush and begin laying the brush near the threads and then twist the rod until it is completely covered. If there are any sags, remove them with the brush. The thread will initially darken and when it returns to the original color, you can add a second coat in the same way. Again the thread will darken until it dries. . I allow this second coat to dry overnight before adding my finish.

If I am particularly paranoid I will add a third coat of CP, but that is a rare occurrence. I hope this helps.

Mike Blomme

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: darrel odland (---.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 10, 2017 02:07PM

Ken, I use Flex Coats "Color preserver and thread sealer" on most every rod I build. I put the rod in my drying motor (about 8 rpm) and apply as rod turns. I like to use it for 2 reasons, it helps to seal the threads to the rod, which helps keep the threads together when doing overlays and second, it delays the darkening of the original color, as over time and exposure to sunlight it will darken. I just made a repair to a Sage rod I built about 25 years ago and can clearly see the difference in color. I could also see a yellowing of the final coat as well. Use caution when applying 2nd or 3rd coats, as bubbles could result and dry on finish. Don't let your sealer freeze, as it will turn to jello, Trust me here......bent rods to ya!!

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Ken Brown 2 (---.115.230.21.res-cmts.mtp2.ptd.net)
Date: March 10, 2017 02:14PM

Thanks for the quick replies. I figured I would use a similar approach to how I apply the rod finish. Put it on the rod dryer and apply as it spins. I didnt think I would need to load up the threads but it makes sense to ensure the threads are completely covered enough to soak in the CP. I like to have my rod on the dryer for at least 8 hours for the finish. I would assume that at least that long for the CP too.

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: March 10, 2017 03:37PM

CP will set up in a minutes rather than hours.

............

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: March 10, 2017 03:52PM

Ken,
It is always your option to use color preserver on nylon thread or no color preserver.

i particularly like the look that I get with the use of nylon thread and NO color preserver. If using the correct thread color and no color preserver, the thread will essentially blend perfectly into the blank, which is a look that I prefer.

To check on the final color of a nylon thread with no color preserver, just do a short test wrap on the blank being wrapped. Then, just take a brush and wet the wrap with denatured alcohol. When still wet, the appearance of the wet nylon thread will be pretty close to the final color with finish applied to the thread.

i.e. the wet alcohol darkens the thread about the same amount as the final finish will darken or change the thread color.

So, if you want to use nylon thread with no color preserver, do some test wraps with different shades of thread and wet them with DNA until you get the color that you prefer.

You may or may not find a thread look using that method compared to using color preserver on the thread.

Good luck

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: David Hauch (---.lightspeed.sbndin.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 10, 2017 04:39PM

when using CP, your making a shell over the thread. now the epoxy can't penetrate the thread or rod.
this just doesn't seem like a good way of building a rod.
i need to be educated....
thx

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: March 10, 2017 06:06PM

The CP soaks down into the thread and onto the rod. It fills the spaces within the thread strands all the way to the blank. It doesn't just sit on top of the thread. It also has some adhesive properties of its own.

It is not necessary for the epoxy to reach the blank. Wraps made with CP are not in any way inherently weak. Granted, you may have a slightly (about 10% according to tests) stronger wrap without CP, but wraps made with CP have proven more than strong enough for just about any fishing task out there.

..............

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Bert Dluhy (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 10, 2017 07:46PM

interesting conversation
I read you learn a lot about rod building by deconstructing - but I haven't done much of that luckily
I find it easier to remove and redo a wrap with CP - but not significantly . .
I also at times prefer no CP for that translucent look - black testors paint (will try nail polish next) on the ground guide foot for a black guide frame is best in that case IMO
One thing I have not experimented with much is NCP thread . . I've seen beautiful thread work done with it and it appears a tad dull and almost decal like - almost masking the skill of the artisan
However I only use NCP thread in white and light colors . . even if darker color is regular nylon and I CP the whole wrap . . white, pale yellow just pop more as NCP thread and darker colors in regular thread sparkle more
Wood dowels or scrap blank pieces, thread, CP, and finish don't cost much in the big scheme of things - invest the time and experiment
If you break it down you basically have the choice of NCP thread or regular thread and the choice of CP or no CP . . . that isn't too many combinations to experiment
I prefer Chroma Seal . . but for no reason other than it was recommended and the first CP I used and it worked so why change

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Ken Brown 2 (---.115.230.21.res-cmts.mtp2.ptd.net)
Date: March 12, 2017 04:19PM

It seems that there are several differing opinions here. I will experiment, which is one of things I like the most about rod building, and see where it takes me.

The one rod I deconstructed had so much build up of decals, it took a substantial amount of time to get the decals off. The smell of the heated up decals was quite nasty. Is there a way to remove decals without creating awful fumes?

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: March 12, 2017 05:28PM

Hello Ken Brown 2.

You could use Citristrip stripper, it will eat your stickers and paint too, but will leave your blank alone.
If you want to leave the paint on but take the stickers off, you might try the alcohol based stuff but some of them (Like denatured) may still take the paint, you will have to check a small spot.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

Bridgeton, NC.

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: March 12, 2017 06:40PM

Ken,
Easy,
Put a couple of fans behind you and sit in front of an open window. If any smoke or fumes come off of what you are working on - they will be asked to exit via the window - courtesy of the strong drafts from the fans behind you.

Take care

p.s.
The fans and open window are always a good idea if working with any thing of a chemical nature, that may have bad fumes from evaporation. There are also some other glues, finishes and paints, that are better used in a well vented area.

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 12, 2017 10:02PM

You must be using a lot of heat to get fumes! Be careful you can ruin the blank structure.

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Re: Using Color Preserver
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: March 13, 2017 08:02AM

Bob,
When removing decals, you only use enough heat to soften the adhesive on the decal. Then the use of scrapers or razor blades will normally quickly complete the task.

I wonder if, in your case, you may have issues with additional material like finish or varnish that might have been placed over the top of the decals that are causing the issue.

Good luck

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