Im a new user of LS Supreme Duragloss "light stable"

a little backgound, Im still kind of new to rod building but already have re-build 5 rods and everyone is getting better everytime.
I started using Flexcoat, then I moved to Diamond II finish y both cases I got really good results using the epoxies, I was amazed by D-II finish but was getting a really short pot life, recently I got an order from a local fishing charter for re-building 8 rods and then I needed to get a bigger bottle of epoxy and I was recommended by fiend to use LS supreme since it has a long pot life and have good reviews, so I ordered a Gallon of product.

well, what it worked for FC or Diamond II finish it just dont work with this finish, I mean, on a long decorative wrap I just getting tons of lumps and uneven epoxy, same deal when appling it on the guides, it was less noticiable because are shorter but really ugly on the decorative trim, its seems thats its not much "self leveling" like Diamond II is.
I tryed a second coat of LS finsih but it only got worst, when normally on the 2nd coat I fix any noticiable fail on the finish but this time it was as bad as the 1st coat.
I know that epoxy brands might have different formula and work different but I have tried three times now on scrap fishing rods but still no avail to get a nice crystal clear and smooth finish like with D-II.

some facts:
- Im pretty sure I mix 1-1 portions, the resin on LS is pretty thick, I warmed the resin on a small bottle inside of a cup with warm water for about 5 minutes and that make it more liquid and let me mix it and work easily but still with the problems with lumps and some bubbles.
- Im pretty sure that I mix it slowly and for about 5 minutes, just like with the other finish brands, no bubbles were noticible when I poured on a flat alloy foil.
- on LS Supreme Im not using heat at all (I use on D-II and FC, tho)
- after 3 days my LS epoxy on the tester crap rod was still rubbery feel and spongy, is this normal?
- I read the instructions and didnt found anything different compating to another finish brands
- the rod dryer Im using is a CRB 18rpm
- LS supreme seems to be less forgiving with normal nylon thread that has not enough CP, a lot of bleedthough sections, while with FC or DII this was covered with 2 coats of CP, LS supreme seems to need at least 3 coats of CP but I still havent test that out yet, I can deal with this easy, tho.

Im not posting this as a complain or to @#$%& about this product but to ask for help and to recieve direction on how to work with this finish, I now have a gallon of it and want to make it work.
Im living on a small town in Baja, Mexico, the climate is almost the same than Phenix or Vegas, pretty cold on winter but it never snow and extremely hot in summer and dry, no humedity at all (normally)
any help or tip will be golden
thanks in advance

Alex


PS: one last comment, yesterday I did another test but this time using a small batch that I have of Diamond-II finish on the same scrap rod and the results were really good, with just some long traces with the brush the epoxy got pretty even with zero bubbles, so, I know I not doing something wrong on the mixing or 1-1 ratio, I just need to change something on my method when using LS supreme, but still havent found whats the problem.

D2 is rebottled from another product. Flex Coat is the finish most often used by commercial rod manufacturers. The U-40 epoxy is formulated and made in-house by Trondak specifically for use on rod wrapping threads. Each epoxy has its own little differences in terms of how it handles and what techniques it responds well to. For starters, try working with it as instructed in the online library here: [www.rodbuilding.org]

..........

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I sort of progressed in a similar manner. Flex coat for a handful of rods, and then decided to try another brand...LS Supreme. It didn't work for me either. Again, no fault of the product. As Tom said...each product has it's own properties. I'm a firm believer of finding the product that works for your style...not trying to change your style to get the product to work. I think I stuck with LS for only a rod or two, and then decided to try a third brand. That brand worked for me for years.

Just find what works for your style & stick with it.

Tried LS Supreme light on 2 wraps. Gave it away. No good for me.

Where are you in Baja? Unhide your email.

Where are you in Baja? Unhide your email.

Alex,
Try doing a test wrap and use some heat. After getting the finish on the test wrap, use a heat gun to apply gentle heat to the wrap and to the finish. See if the additional heat thins the finish and lets it flow out.

Any other finish that I have used - the gentle heat will take care of the issues that you mention. By the way, I am not an advocate of putting another layer of finish on a rough initial finish with the idea that the 2nd coat will fix the problems.

Take care

I'm still new to rod building, and all I've ever used is LS Supreme. Maybe the fact that it's all I've ever used is why I'm surprised others don't like it?

Anyhow .... I don't do long decorative wraps, nor have I put a manufacturers decal on any of the rods I've built thus far, so I have no experience with using it on wraps longer than those needed on guides. My struggles with it, other than what I would assume is the normal learning curve associated with being a new builder, is that it doesn't seem to like heat.

I've tried heating the resin by placing it in hot water and letting it soak to make it less thick before mixing. I found that it really shortened the pot life. I've also heated it after the two parts were mixed in an attempt to let any bubbles release more easily. It made the bubbles release easily, but once again it shortened the pot life.

I know the resin is thick, but as long as it and the hardener are not too cold, it mixes quite well and has what I think is nice flow. I'm happy with the results I get with LS Supreme. The only gripe I have with it ( and it would be the only reason I would try something different) is that I bought the 8 oz kit and the hardener yellows in the bottle.

But I'm wondering if that isn't a problem that all finishes have if they don't get used within a few months?

Grant Darby Wrote:
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> Where are you in Baja? Unhide your email.


I'm in San Felipe, by the sea of cortez, 2hrs south of USA

Just unhided the email option

roger wilson Wrote:
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> Alex,
> Try doing a test wrap and use some heat. After
> getting the finish on the test wrap, use a heat
> gun to apply gentle heat to the wrap and to the
> finish. See if the additional heat thins the
> finish and lets it flow out.
>
> Any other finish that I have used - the gentle
> heat will take care of the issues that you
> mention. By the way, I am not an advocate of
> putting another layer of finish on a rough initial
> finish with the idea that the 2nd coat will fix
> the problems.
>
> Take care


Thanks amigo, but this epoxy don't take the heat in good way

David Baylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm still new to rod building, and all I've ever
> used is LS Supreme. Maybe the fact that it's all
> I've ever used is why I'm surprised others don't
> like it?
>
> Anyhow .... I don't do long decorative wraps, nor
> have I put a manufacturers decal on any of the
> rods I've built thus far, so I have no experience
> with using it on wraps longer than those needed on
> guides. My struggles with it, other than what I
> would assume is the normal learning curve
> associated with being a new builder, is that it
> doesn't seem to like heat.
>
> I've tried heating the resin by placing it in hot
> water and letting it soak to make it less thick
> before mixing. I found that it really shortened
> the pot life. I've also heated it after the two
> parts were mixed in an attempt to let any bubbles
> release more easily. It made the bubbles release
> easily, but once again it shortened the pot life.
>
>
> I know the resin is thick, but as long as it and
> the hardener are not too cold, it mixes quite well
> and has what I think is nice flow. I'm happy with
> the results I get with LS Supreme. The only gripe
> I have with it ( and it would be the only reason I
> would try something different) is that I bought
> the 8 oz kit and the hardener yellows in the
> bottle.
>
> But I'm wondering if that isn't a problem that all
> finishes have if they don't get used within a few
> months?


This is good news, keep my faith in finding the way to improve my current results

Can I ask you what Dryer model and RPM are you using?

I Will try a small batch with the resin without any kind of warming and see my results, I was recommended in another forum to use a low speed RPM dryer like 8 or 5 RPM , mine it's 18rpm it's supposedly too fast for a thin epoxy like this

I Will try rotating by hand on just guide wraps this weekend


My hardener is pretty yellow too

All epoxies will yellow over time, both in the bottle and on the rod.

............

I use an 18 RPM dryer, and don't have any problems (that I can see) with it being too fast. My biggest remaining problem with finish are IMO, two fold.

First, I only build on average, 2 rods a year. (although this year I'll be building at least 4) As I don't do it that often the first and some times second wraps I coat have a slight football shape to them.

My second problem, and one that I think contributes to my first problem is that my hands aren't as steady as they once were, and I apply my finish using my rod dryer, and it turns too slow. At least it turns too slow for my liking. I bought a power wrapper, mostly because I'll be able to turn the rod faster as I apply finish. I'm sure there will be a learning curve involved with applying finish at faster speeds, but I'm certain it's one that I'll be able to deal with.

I have plenty of old rods to practice on.

I use threadmaster lite, but i have used flex coat and ls supreme and have gotten good results. What i do is put every coat on very thin even if it takes me 10 coats(usually takes 3), but i dont get leveling issues like that. Since i put on so thin there isnt much to level anyway. I use a 3rpm motor to apply and dry(it was free from microwave). I apply a lot at first and let it soak for like 30 secs then i go back and remove most of it. That usually gives me a nice flat base for the second coat. Again im not in a hurry

I use threadmaster lite, but i have used flex coat and ls supreme and have gotten good results. What i do is put every coat on very thin even if it takes me 10 coats(usually takes 3), but i dont get leveling issues like that. Since i put on so thin there isnt much to level anyway. I use a 3rpm motor to apply and dry(it was free from microwave). I apply a lot at first and let it soak for like 30 secs then i go back and remove most of it. That usually gives me a nice flat base for the second coat. Again im not in a hurry so if you have time try it out.

well, amigos, can can say that after lots of reading and with your help as well as from help from Dan (from LS Supreme U-40 factory)
I could do a smooth work with this Epoxy.

in short, the key was to do as thin as possible and I could understand how to take the most epoxy out from the rod while rotation, doh!!

"I apply a lot at first and let it soak for like 30 secs then i go back and remove most of it. That usually gives me a nice flat base for the second coat. Again im not in a hurry so if you have time try it out."

of course, so I put the epoxy this time with a spatula, then let it sink to the bottom and take any sags out, then turn it 180* and wait to see if there any sags, if you see any just take them out again, then turn the rod 180* again, and do this steps for 30 minutes by hand, after all that time and the sags taken out I put the rod on the 18rpm drier and the remaining epoxy gave me a smooth surface, next day I did the same on my testing rod and this time I got the same smooth surface but with more deep effect and being able to fix some small details left on the 1st coat.

the rod look really good, 5x better than my 1st time using it so Im a happy camper, I just now waiting for the rod to cure and call it a day, its already dry of course but compared to D2 or FC I can still left a mark with my nail on it and this is with just 24hrs drying on my bedroom, hopefully with 2 more days it will be as hard as Diamond 2 or FC

thanks guys for your input, the bad experiences and good experiences with this finish is not that different from what I read about other brands



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2017 12:04PM by Alex Pineda.

Sounds good to me. Now if you blow thru a soda straw over the wraps after coating you'll release a lot of bubbles that may remain.