In the past, I've used single foot guides on a lighter rod (7' four weight) and snake guides on a 9 1/2' seven weight rod. I am considering an Eternity 9' five weight for the near future. What are the pros and cons of single foot vs. traditional double footed snake guides? I would really appreciate some opinions on this subject. Thanks in advance!
Slainte,
Hunter

From ghoulies and ghosties,
and long leggedy beasties,
and things that go bump in the night,
Good Lord deliver us!

To me single foot guides are harder to keep straight for me on the length of the rod. I think they can get knocked loose easier, and I find single foot guides harder to wrap. People will tell you they are lighter, too, but I never bought into that argument. A s far as the weight, to me it's like the difference in weight be tween one feather and two. The two weight more, but it's not noticeable, at least in the 3 to 8 wt. rods I've built. The double-foot guides are my choice because they take more bumps, and are easier for me to place on the rod. I'm no expert and a hobby builder. The professionals are here may be of more help.

Twice the feet, twice the wraps, twice the amount of finish. It all adds up in the end.

The PacBay Minima guides are a good alternative for fly rod guides. Sort of the best of all worlds with few downsides.

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I build only fly rods and use single foot guides on all my builds unless the customer insists on double foot. If wrapped correctly using the Forhan locking wrap, they are very secure!

As Tom covers above, half the wrapping work and about half the weight, especially critical when nearing the tip!

I build only fly rods and use single foot guides on all my builds unless the customer insists on double foot. If wrapped correctly using the Forhan locking wrap, they are very secure!

As Tom covers above, half the wrapping work and about half the weight, especially critical when nearing the tip!

I was checking my 8 wt 9 foot Quickline rod today, a 3 year old rod with its single foot wire guides, and noticed that the guides were still so solidly on the rod that I couldn't budge them. No locking wraps. If single foot guides are getting moved on rods the rods have experienced one heck of a blow. If I have to give up anything to get more toughness, like from snakes, I won't do it.

This is the first post for me. I've been a flyfisherman for 50 years, have built a few rods (including a stint at the Paul Young co. after college). To me, a fly rod needs to have snake guides. Check out any of the major manufacturers of top quality rods (Sage, Loomis, Tom Morgan, Scott, Winston, etc.) , what do you see on their rods?
I built a couple of rods in the early 2000's on Loomis blanks with single foot guides. They performed ok, but to my aesthetic, they never looked right. The weight savings are probably minimal. Do what you think looks the best, but until I see the top makers putting single foot guides on their rods, and Rajeff saying that it will add 20' to my cast, I'll stick with snake guides.
And for my money, Snake Brand guides are the best. Just my two cents. By the way, I love this forum, have learned a lot just following along.

The "top makers" are building to a budget, not the possible top level of performance.

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But what about passing of knots through guides?

I usually use single foot Minimas but often fish with quite long (often hand tied) leaders. The fly line leader connection (and other knots) quite often gets inside the tip, but I am frustrated by the ability of single foots to pass the knots. I'm thinking of trying double foots instead.

Is it fair to say the snake double foots pass knots better than any single foot (of comparable size) ?

Different strokes for different folks, use what you like the best. A number of years ago I came in possession of a commercial Loomis GLX 9' 9wgt fly rod, one of the very top of the line fly rods. It had single foot guides and casted a performed extremely well. That rod convinced me that single foot fly guides were ok to use and the heck with tradition. I have some fly rods with single foot guides and others with double foot snake guides. I have had no problems with either of them, and I can honestly say that I really have a hard time determining any difference between them concerning performance. I have to admit that I am not an expert fly caster, but do well enough to have fun catching fish. I do prefer the looks of single foot guides, but that's me.
Norm

I have a factory built Loomis GL3, 9'6", 6 weight that has single foot guides.

the difference IMO is customers choice or builders choice as for weight it is so so minuscule you won't be able to tell
Wrapping single vs dbl foot guides it is a wash as you put a locking wrap on single foot guides so your still doing 2 per guide.
Finishing the rod I prefer to use light weight /thin coating and do some times apply as many as 3 coats.

Weight reduction has gone to extreme silliness as the amount of weight is as I stated so minuscule you would need a gram scale to read it Think about this 1 Ounce = 28.3495231 Grams so if you save 2 -5 grams will you even notice it ??
where you can save on over all rod weight is with the choice of handle material and reel seat on the seat you can cut some using spaced arbors 3/8 ths.thick spaced 3/8 ths apart as versed using a solid arbor foam or other and apply a thin coat of epoxy to the arbors and the inside walls of the seat and slip it together BUT THERE IS ONE MORE THING you also could use a tape on cork Tennessee style seat.
on the reel used save some with super braid backing vs Dacron or nylon type backing lines.
The super braid used as backing will have a much smaller knot that will pass through small guides easily .
AGAIN this is just my thoughts about trying to save weight on light weight rods for other rods you can do quite a bit but light weight rods not so much to make a big difference.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2017 05:49AM by Matthew Paul.

Just a couple of points - The Forhan Locking wrap is integral with the wrap, it is not a 2nd wrap added to the first. And, yes the weight difference between guides is minuscule but is noticeable. Most anyone can feel the difference in a bare rod blank and one that has had nothing more than just a lightweight tiptop glued on it.

Nobody is wrong here, these are all just different ways to look at building the rod. All will work.

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One hour with a competent fly-casting instructor will do 100X more for your casting than any weight savings possible with single-foot guides. However, halving the number of guide wraps is a real benefit to the rod builder. Snake guides will pass larger knots/obstructions than single-footers, but the difference is not great. Aesthetics aside, there is not much difference between the performance or durability of snake and one-foot guides, particularly in smaller line/rod sizes, like a 5 wt..

Hunter,
I use both on the same fly rod.
Double foot snakes for the lower 2/3 of the rod and single foot for the tip 1/3.
Inertia is lowest in the rod's lower portion and highest at the tip. The blank is also stiffer in the lower section. No need to put stronger guides on a weaker section of the blank. Use stronger guides where the blank is stiffer.
I stay away from any inserted guides except for the stripper. It's real difficult to make a lighter guide than a single piece of wire and a strong guide isn't required for a weak tip.

Gene Moore

Like Barney, I have been building fly rods for over 55 years. During that time I have followed some fads such as using very large snake guides as recommended by one of the fly fishing magazines. When I compared casts, I found that larger guides did not improve performance. The same was true when I tried single foot guides with and without ceramic rings. So I went back to snake guides and I also like Snake Brand guides. I have minimized the length of the guide wraps thereby saving some weight. Using only thin coats of Permagloss also saves some weight.

Mike Blomme

The first rod I ever repaired - before I built a rod - was a fly rod with guide rings dangling from keepers wound onto a cane blank. Since the introduction of snake guides I have seen no innovation in fly-rod guide design which measurably improves fly rod performance. If scientific, repeatable test data exists to document superiority of snake or single-foot guides such data has been kept secret.

The guides are what they are and some are large and some are small the material used to make them is different in specific weight most commonly use guide materials here is their specific weight
stainless steel has a specific gravity weight of 7.8
nickle silver is 8.8
bronze is 8.8 used mostly for snake style guides hook keepers and tip top barrels
red brass 8.8 used mostly for snake style guides, hook keepers and tip top barrels
jewelers brass 8.7 same as the bronze or brass
cartridge brass 8.5 alloy mix with tin
The lightest is Titanium at 4.5
so consider what each material used for the guide/guide frame with a ceramic ring of one type or another or just formed wire yes the guide size will affect the guide weight but by micro grams .
a one foot guide will allow for more flex of the rod as where a 2 foot guide will tend to stiffen the rod a bit as it contacts the blank in 2 places as versed one.
as for the seat the aluminum barreled seats with reel foot boots and threaded lock nut are the lightest you can get with as aluminum has a specific gravity weight of 2.7 and it will be a bit more in weight as they add an alloy to make it stronger.
Yes the finish used can add weight the thread/threads also can add weight depending what you choice is for type of finish and thread size thread size of A - 0 -00 or silk
With these bits of science and chemistry it proves weight can be reduced with the use of smallest guides you can get away with but it isn't all that great and hardly even noticeable.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

2-foot guides effectively soften the blank rather than stiffen it. While you may stiffen a short area, the overall effect due to the added weight is a "softer" or less powerful blank with a slower speed. In fact, single foot guides also soften a rod blank in spite of the leg splint effect, but not quite as much due to their slightly lower weight.

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Single foot are not lighter than snake as a single foot as the same amount of legal as à snake.
In fact single is a snake with one foot reversed and welded with the other, so same weight.

The weight saving come with the Wrap one vs two and the varnish (one Wrap to cover vs two).

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Eric
[www.emfishing.fr]