Hey all,
Been building for awhile but just now getting back into the thick of things. Starting up two crank bait/chatterbait rods here in a couple days and wanting to get some input on guide trains.

[www.mudhole.com]

Gonna be using this blank and have always used Fuji but not for any reason. My main issue is minimum size because I have had several rods I spiral wrapped with micros that had trouble passing braid to fluorocarbon Albright knots. Would like to keep guide sizes above a 5 and will be throwing braid as well. I typically just go with a concept build using either Alconite or Aluminum Oxide.

Does anyone have suggestions as far as guide series, ring sizes, and number of them? Do not want to spend more than I have to.
Thanks for the help.
Ben

Give the MicroWave guides a try... they are amazing... there is reason that many of the top bass anglers in the word use them.

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God Bless, Don Morse

800-516-1750 ext. 1207 / don@americantackle.us

Rod Building..... It's What We Do.

Fuji's new KR baitcast stripper is an "RV". It's a reverse size 6 stripper. Follow that with any size runner you want all the way to the top. Would suggest 3 KB5 followed by KT5 to the top. Smooth and very, very light. ALCONITE®

Jim Ising Wrote:
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> Fuji's new KR baitcast stripper is an "RV". It's a
> reverse size 6 stripper. Follow that with any size
> runner you want all the way to the top. Would
> suggest 3 KB5 followed by KT5 to the top. Smooth
> and very, very light. ALCONITE®

Jim, what tip top would you suggest for this?

Father to William (15 yrs), who I hope has found his passion in custom rod building!

Just curious on the benefit of MicroWave with a caring rod. I have them on a spinning rod and love it but I do not see the same potential benefit. huge fan of it on my spinning rod I'm just not sure how it helps a casting rod.

Ben,
I doubt that there is really any advantage of using a microwave on a casting rod, except that it simplifies the guide selection.

Really, the same is true of a spinning rod. You can use any of many different guide systems on a spinning or casting rod - and if chosen correctly, each guide system will perform very well on the given rod.

Be safe

According to both Amtak and Fuji the first guide (possibly second also) on the casting rod can make a significant difference in casting performance because there are in fact significant "disturbances" in the line in that area of the rod on casting outfits. When micros were just coming into popularity some wrapped the same size all the way to the tip. A member of this forum recommended using a larger guide, like 5-6 mm for the first guide, then smaller micros to the tip.

I have some similar casting rods that cast cleaner than others. With the same reel moved between them. Why would this be if the guides didn't make a difference? I also ask the question if Microwaves on a casting rod make no difference, then any guides will work, so there really isn't any guide selection problem to simplify. Just use any sizes and heights. Doesn't matter exc for passing knots.

I suggest taking your proposals to the water (wet braid casts differently than dry braid, maybe same for mono or FC) at sunrise or sunset, so you can see the line well, and experiment with the outfit. You most likely will find that some setups have the line going through the 1st and 2nd guides more smoothly, less disturbance, than others.

My personal opinion is that the guide trains on casting rods may be more influential on casting performance than guide trains are on spinning rods due to the fact that it would not take much of a difference in the clearing of the line through the guides to screw up casting outfit performance. On a spinning rod it may affect distance but it won't cause or contribute to backlashes.

Of course the better skilled casters can handle these differences so well that it may not matter as much to them as it does to less skilled casters. On casting outfits as opposed to spinning outfits.

So many variables with line types/line pound test/rod actions/rod power/guide sizes/guide heights/reel characteristics/lure characteristics.

Here is a video from Anglers Resource that demonstrates the Fuji KR concept for both spinning and casting rods. This may help in visualizing what happens with the line during a cast.
[m.youtube.com]
Norm

Thanks for the video Norm. That helped a ton. My only issue with the KR is passing a braid to fluoro knot (12-17lb) Will the 4.5 have any issues doing that? I have 4's on a spiral wrapped flipping stick and it demolishes casting if there is a knot.

Looking at a 10-8-7-6-6-6-6-6 using K series guides, 10 and 8 are the double foot kw and 6/7 are single foot running guides, will that work or does it defeat the purpose of the KR concept?
Thanks for all the help

I have size 4.5 and 4 runners on my KR spinning and casting rods and use an FG knot to connect braid to fluoro leader (15 - 20 lb) without any problems.
What you propose is more like a NGC set up.and it will work fine, but it is heavier and does defeat the KR concept. If you want a larger size runner and still keep it as a KR concept then use size 5 runners, they are plenty large enough and are lighter than 6s. I would use a guide train consisting of KW 10 (or RV6), KW 5.5, two KB 5, and the rest KT 5. For a tiptop could use a Fuji MN with a size 5 ring, or a tip top from another manufacturer with a 5 ring.
Norm

Ben,
The simple solution to the braid to a leader knot is to always keep the leader shorter than the rod. Then, never run the knot through any guides. No knot through the guides and no issues.


Good luck

Awesome. I will go with the 5 runners as you suggested Norm, also will have to try short leaders and the FG knot
Thanks a bunch!