As some of you know I like the Fuji KR micro concept set up for spin rods. I have used the Fuji KR guides (KL-H and KB/KT) since their introduction and as a lighter weight option have also used the PacBay Minima M and F guides with good results. I posted a short time ago that I would like to try the SeaGuide KR-like guides as another option, but could not find the models I wanted for sale in the US. Anglers Workshop, Get Rod Blanks, and Janns Netcraft are three of the four US distributors, but none sell what I wanted to try. Rick Hall at SeaGuide contacted me and sent me a set of guides to try. When I received these guides I was very impressed with their quality and wanted to share my opinion on these guides.

Specifically, I received 9 guides plus tip top, and they were: SCXOHRSG size 20 and 10, SCXOMRSG size 5.5, SCXORSG size 4.5W and 4.5N runners, and SCXLRST size 5/5(2.2mm) tip top. The same as a Fuji KR set. All of these guides have a 316SS frame in a sandblast finish (SC), and contain their top of the line RS ring. The reduction guides are basically the same as the Fuji KL-H and KL-M guides, so they make an excellent option for a KR-like spin setup. When I compared the total weight of these guides with other guide sets, I was pleasantly surprised at how light they were. The entire set weighed 5.4 g, a little heavier than a Minima guide set (4.5 gm), but lighter than a Fuji Alconite set (6.8 gm), and an AT duralite Microwave set (6.2 gm). Also the RS ring (silicon nitride) is noticeably thinner than alconite, SIC, duralite, or zirconium rings. This gave a larger ring ID for the same OD. The Seaguide 4.5 runners had an ID similar to Fuji and AT size 5 runners. Which means that you could use a smaller runner and save even more weight. Besides being thinner, the RS rings are advertised to have a Vicker hardness of 1600, high thermal conductivity, and high toughness. You can look at their on line catalog for details.

You can get these guides with the RS ring in both 316SS (Hero series) and titanium (Zeus series) frames. Another ring option for these guides series is a less expensive LS zirconium ring. In addition, the SS models come in a bunch of finish options. When I checked out the price list I was surprised at the low cost of these guides. Based on similar nine guide model sets plus tip top the approximate prices are:
Fuji SS Alconite - $29
Fuji titanium Alconite - $71
Fuji SS SIC - $60
Fuji titanium SIC - $110
Fuji titanium Torzite - $139
SG SS LS ring - $24
SG SS RS ring - $51
SG titanium LS ring - $59
SG titanium RS ring - $83

The major problem with these SeaGuide guides is you can not get them in the US at this time. Hopefully, some of our sponsors will start to offer a wider variety of the SeaGuide guides. I also posted this mini review for those going to the ICRBE so they can check out these guides in person. Hope this helps.
Norm

Thanks Norm for the review of the Sea Guide guides. I am going to check them out at the ICRBE and hopefully buy some.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2017 02:45PM by David Miller.

Dang, Norman, very nice comprehensive job! I am also quite loyal to Fuji but you have afforded me with a set of clear blinders. I especially like the possibility of a “sandblast” finish as I typically avoid shiny, chrome looking guides. You are to be commended! Thanks from all of us.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I have also been a loyal Fuji fan for years, but these guides are of very high quality at a lower price, and are making me thick twice. I was very impressed and think they are an excellent buy. I would like to try a titanium RS set next time, I think this set would weigh in at about 3 gm, and be $60 cheaper than a Fuji Torzite set and $30 less than a SIC set. I was really impressed with RS ring and think it is better than SIC rings and may be close to Torzite. The SC finish or sand blast finish is a matte silver and looks very similar to titanium, very nice. As I mentioned the problem is getting these guides, I think one could have one of the American distributors special order these XOH, and XOM, with the RS ring. Both Anglers Work Shop and Get Rod Blanks sell the SC XOGRS running guides. They also sell the double ft SCXQRS guide which looks similar to the Fuji KW guides and could be used for a KR-like micro guide casting set up. These sponsors also sell the SeaGuide Y frame guides with the RS ring, so these can be used for a NGC spin build. Hopefully some of our sponsors will start stocking a wider variety of the KR-like SeaGuide guides for others to try. I think they could be good sellers. Take a look at the SeaGuide catalog, it's at the SeaGuide site to the left.
Norm

Sea Guide has been imitating Fuji products since 1997 and doing so at a lower retail price. Even so, they have never gained a foothold in the domestic market. Norm, you've been a great fan (and student) of Fuji or many years and we appreciate your loyalty to the brand even when It costs a few extra bucks. As you well know, Fuji research and development has driven every major innovation in guide technology for over 30 years but what you may not know is that they have just completed construction of a 5-million dollar research complex. Two weeks ago, we had the pleasure of a complete tour ("no pictures, please") - it was astounding. The walk-through was highlighted by a newly developed casting machine that removes all guesswork and compares one rod against another with both casting at the exact same time. All tests are conducted indoors under controlled conditions in a new 60 meter custom designed "stadium".

I suppose my point is that if you remove Fuji's 35 person research department; and you remove the quality of Japanese steel and Titanium Alloys; and you remove the ceramics that are engineered and developed specifically for Fuji by the world's most respected ceramics engineering company; and you remove Japanese made tooling and concentrate primarily on replicating someone else's work - then yes, you can bring to market a "KR-like" product at a lower price. But please, try not to confuse it with the real thing.

Jim I agree that Fuji products are top of the line, and that Fuji does a lot of R&D as well as advertisements, and these costs are included in the price of their products. As you know, I have studied and tested a variety of guide placement systems over the years and have found the Fuji KR concept a real performance enhancer, and I have posted my opinion on this many times. I have also tried most of the different brands of guides out there to see how they perform, and I'm always comparing them to Fuji. As a consumer, I am always looking for quality vs value. As far as Alconite vs SiC guides are concerned I see absolutely no practical advantage with the SIC guides, they weigh the same, they look the same and they perform the same, but cost much more. Titanium frames have a distinct advantage over SS frames due to lightness and corrosion resistance but at almost double the price. So to save money I have used Fuji titanium framed Alconite ringed KR guides for my salt water rods. Recently, Fuji discontinued the titanium Alconite guides, and it is almost like Fuji is forcing people to pay more for titanium framed guides. That made me mad, so I started looking at other KR-like guides. I was fortunate enough to get my hands on the Seaguide guides I discribed above, and I have found them to be of very good value. The Fuji Torzite guides are completely out of my price range, they may certainly have some advantages over both Alconite and SiC guides due to their thinness and durability, but I am not sure they are worth the extra money as far as performance is concerned. The RS ring has similar characteristics to the Torzite ring, but at a much lower cost. I do not like spending as much money on a set of guides as I do on a quality blank such as my Point Blank. I can buy a set of SeaGuide titanium RS guides for slightly more than Fuji titanium Alconite guides, so who can blame me for that. Isn't that what competition is all about?
Norm

I like Fuji kr concept guides and reel seats like the PTS but I think they have left a big void in the market and there are other manufactures that are filling it. If Fuji would use 316 stainless steel with an alconite or torzite ring at a decent price I would probably just use Fuji. I am willing to pay a little more for made in Japan just like USA rod blanks if I deem something a good value to me.

Norm I can't disagree with a single word you said. I simply felt a duty to make sure the other side of the story was presented. And I am not questioning your use and endorsement of Fuji products. It has been stellar. FYI, Fuji did not pull Titanium ALCONITE to force the use of more expensive titanium guides. In fact, they have an alternative in the wings but, as we have seen many times, Fuji's ability to introduce new products globally on a timely schedule seems to be something they can't quite master. Even though it is not fully available yet, if you will swing by our booth at ICRBE I'll give you a peek at an all new finish from Fuji that is similar to the "sandblast" look you mentioned but is achieved with a eco-friendly chemical process that results in a Stainless finish that is 5 TIMES more corrosion resistant than polished stainless!! Soon, your ALCONITE ring will be available in a frame that has been created for saltwater (freshwater too obviously) and is FAR LESS expensive than titanium. Don't give up yet!

Jim, I will certainly visit with you at the Expo. You have done an outstanding job of promoting Fuji products, and without you nobody would understand the Fuji KR concept.
Norm

That is really good to hear Jim, I will check out the new finish guides at the expo!

They are very nice guides and there are more new items on the horizon. Unfortunately they are targeted toward ICAST but we will keep you posted.

Norman and Jim,
Both of you are very knowledgeable and well respected within the rod building community in general and me in particular. Being a newbie, I have learned immensely from both of you through your replies to my posts on this site, and agree with both on this particular issue.
The reason I am loyal to Fuji is simply because I lack the experience to have tested and built with all the different rod components from many different sources and manufacturers. I am confident with purchasing any Fuji component due to their vast research, development and manufacturing capabilities. Anyone would be hard pressed to find higher quality rod building parts.
That being said, I do find fault with two issues concerning Fuji’s (KW) guide series. First, as Norman stated, is discontinuing the Alconite ring in the Ti frame, and found myself having to scramble around through numerous venders to complete my set of TKWAGs. Second, polishing the Ti frames looks cheap and hideous. Admittedly, I opted for a Ti wedding ring, semi polished, due to my love of fabrication and considering Ti to be my “precious metal”. Without seeing “Titanium” stamped on the brace, no one would be able to tell if the guide was SS or even ugly chrome plated 1018 steel. Same with the SS frames = would look better with an as-stamped or tumbled finish, or at least offer the option. Heck, I would pay more for Unpolished. I have even considered building fixtures to insulate the ring so polished guides could be tumbled or shell blasted. While not as critical on a saltwater rods, I would never put anything flashy or reflective on a trout rod (KLs, KTs…).

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.