I have friends who are very good fishermen who swears by fiberglass for that special 'something' that catches them more fish with certain techniques.

So I got my first fiberglass rod to test out.

Question for those of you who have built and fished with both extensively: Is there really something about fiberglass (or bamboo?) that provides something that carbon fiber simply can't?

From a physics point of view, it seems to me that I should be able to use carbon fiber blanks to mimic fiberglass so that when one is blindfolded, one really can't tell the difference. For example, I can select a carbon fiber blank with the same action as a fiberglass, and then use heavier guides and finishes so that the recovery slows down to match the fiberglass. Would that not work? (Though I would not want to do that....)

Curious.

Carbon fiber will do anything glass will, but glass cannot do everything that carbon fiber can.

A carbon fiber rod can be made to offer a slow speed if that's what you want to do with it. At some point glass cannot offer as fast a speed as carbon can. Action is independent of material, and either can be as slow or as fast i action as the designer wishes. The overlap is in speed (reaction and recovery) and carbon will extend further up that scale.

Power is also independent of material and thus either material can used to offer as much or as little power as desired. Only difference is that for any given power, less carbon is required than would be glass in the same power, so the carbon rod will be lighter.

There's nothing special about either material, really. Action, power and speed can all be adjusted by varying diameter, wall thickness and taper, but at the higher end of the speed scale design, glass will eventually hit a ceiling while carbon will keep climbing.

Trying to make a carbon rod mimic a glass rod by adding component weight is certainly possible, but if you do that you lose whatever advantage carbon can offer. But you already know that.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2017 08:47PM by Tom Kirkman.

Fiberglass (and especially bamboo) has a soul. Carbon fiber is a cold, black, soul-less material.


But seriously, each material has its strengths and weaknesses. I love fiberglass fly rods for the feel you get while casting them, and the appearance you can get when the fiberglass weave is allowed to show itself. Graphite is more suited to faster 'modern' rods.

You can make a very slow action, slow speed rod from carbon. Most don't, of course, as that's not what they're shooting for, but it's easily done. Yes, it is suited to higher speed modern type rods, which prior to carbon weren't easily possible.

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Mo,
There is something that fiberglass can do that carbon can not do.

That something is really bend a great deal and very sharply without ever breaking.

You may have seen commercials with some glass rods being bent into a loop and have a knot tied with the blank - possible with the right glass blank - next to impossible with a carbon blank. With a similar sized blank - the carbon blank would snap well before the glass blank would break.

For making ice fishing rods which are short based on the type ice fishing being done - the glass blanks really shine because the heavier weight of the fiberglass is largely negated due to the short length of the rod. Also, the extreme flexibility of the glass blank without breaking is excellent for short light action rods because the glass rod is so much tougher and will bend without breaking a similar sized carbon blank.

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In a long rod - a Glass rod really excels when it is used for a crank bait rod. Its softer action works very well to let crank baits remain in the mouth of a fish that might otherwise get ripped out with the crisper action of a glass rod.

Also, a glass rod really excels for use as a very long unattended noodle rod. The long soft tipped noodle action can be baited, cast, placed in a rod holder and left there until the fish has hooked itself on the end of the line. Then, the fish can be reeled in. Not so much with a carbon line that will tend to be crisper and stiffer and will tend to let the fish feel the resistance of the rod blank which may allow the fish to throw the bait before hooking itself.

So, yes, options are great for certain types of fishing - with the use of a glass rod. But for many other uses, the use a a straight carbon, or a matrix of glass and carbon can work better in a rod blank.

Take care

Mo,
First of all, I have fished for over 50 years, but recreationally not extensively, and have been building rods for less than one year, so feel free to discount my input. There are many within this site fitting your criteria surely to offer their extensively gathered knowledge.
While 18 years in the composite industry may not be considered extensive, allow me to offer the following. There are qualities of both FG and CF the other cannot duplicate. Each performs certain tasks differently, which may be interpreted as better or worse. Basically, CF is stiff while FG is tough. In some instances, stiff is considered strong where toughness is not required yet other times toughness is considered strong if rigidity is not a concern. Although CF itself is not actually that much lighter than FG, much less CF material is required to produce an equally stiff laminate than with FG, which relates to a considerable ultimate weight savings. To produce a CF laminate equaling the toughness of a FG counterpart, it would be excessively stiff, costly and probably just as heavy.
CF lends itself extremely well to fishing rods/blanks. The (less) material itself allows manufacturers to fine tune blank characteristics more easily and precisely and by enabling smaller diameters and wall thicknesses which equates to a substantial lighter weight. But CF is stiff and as with any other material, the stiffer it is the more brittle it is. When a CF laminate exceeds its limits, it fails catastrophically. Similar to a carbide tool bit, while being extremely stiff and rigid, it tapped or dropped, it snaps or shatters.
Which may be why so many, if not most, 100lb+ big game rods are still FG where weight is not as much of a concern as toughness while still being able to flex.
Two different worlds for two different fibers?
There is a third aspect to be considered which inclusively fits right in the middle of the other two; FUN & FEEL. Without elaborating, I have more FUN fishing for trout with my inexpensive, cheap also, FG Eagle Claw Featherlight than with any of its precise-action CF stable mates. And the additional beauty of the exposed weave of a vintage FG rod puts those over the top. A similar-date simile is comparing a present Formula 1 race car to a 1950s Formula 1 (Grand Prix) race car; The modern state-of-the-art car has mind-boggling speed and cornering capabilities while the vintage car, state-of-the-art for the era, had to be controllably drifted or slid around the corners. While I respect and admire both, there is just something special and FUN about those Grand Prix cars and drivers as well!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I've worked with carbon fiber for many years in various applications and never found it to be "brittle" in the least. To obtain similar stiffness or power that you would have with a lower modulus material you do not need to use as much of it, which results in a less substantial unit which is then incapable of absorbing the same abuse or rough handing, but it's not brittle. In fact, you can easily make a near unbreakable carbon fiber fishing rod, but it's doubtful you'd want to fish with it.

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Carbon fiber and fiberglass are "families" of rod blank materials, not individuals. There is a significant difference between "S-glass" and "E-glass" blanks and between generations I - V of graphite blanks.
Carbon can be made into a bullet-proof vest or a pencil. Glass can be more fragile than an eggshell or bulletproof. The size, density, and arrangement of constituent fibers as well as the type of matrix bonding these fibers and the geometry of a blank are vital to a its performance. The devil is in the details.

That's exactly right.

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So it seems that:

1. Technically, carbon fiber can be made in manner that may exhibit fiberglass qualities including toughness, weight etc.

2. Practically however, due to the way manufacturer's build their blanks, none use carbon fiber to mimic fiberglass qualities so if one wants qualities that traditional fiberglass blanks exhibit, one need to go for fiberglass blanks.

Does that sound about right?

So it seems that:

1. Technically, carbon fiber can be made in manner that may exhibit fiberglass qualities including toughness, weight etc.

2. Practically however, due to the way manufacturer's build their blanks, none use carbon fiber to mimic fiberglass qualities so if one wants qualities that traditional fiberglass blanks exhibit, one need to go for fiberglass blanks.

Does that sound about right?

So that I don't start a new thread, a question.

Are fiberglass blanks always translucent? I thought so. I am stripping a fiberglass rod to rebuild and as the paint came off, the blank itself is jet black. Not at all translucent. I was hoping for a translucent blank. I wonder if it is a heavy low powered carbon fiber blank that is claimed to be fiberglass, or even a composite.

I do find translucent fiberglass blanks to be quite 'pretty'.

Thanks.

glass blanks come in several different colors red, 4 or more shades of green, 3 or more shades of blue,black ,white, translucent, 3 shades of pink and even purple they are mostly for Kidd rods or Ice fishing. all they do in the process is add a color pigment to the resin and you have a colored blank. you can tell most times by looking at the butt end of the blank .

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

To each his own. As initially stated, feel free to discount my input. I will stick with composite industry standard knowledge.
Mo, you are correct. FG, whether E or S glass, is by nature clear or translucent. When a clear matrix (resin), be it polyester, vinylester, epoxies, urethanes or such, is used to wet-out the fabric, the end laminate will be clear or translucent as well. Coloring agents are added to the matrix to achieve desired colors. Colored FG cloth and woven sleeves are available but the ultimate strength of the end laminate will be decreased, hence it would be difficult to find colored S glass. I think it has to do more with the coloring being a coating rather than a dye which restricts the effectiveness of the bond between the fibers and the matrix. Such colored FG cloth is usually employed for cosmetic rather than structural applications.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

If you want glass type characteristics, it makes no sense to use more expensive carbon to get it when you can simply use the less expensive glass to begin with. Sure, you can get those characteristics with carbon but it makes no sense to do it.

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I think what Tom should have said was, "Sure, you can get those characteristics with carbon but it makes no CENTS to do it." !! ;)

Father to William (15 yrs), who I hope has found his passion in custom rod building!

If fiberglass is that much cheaper then why are some glass blanks $350?

Because after a while, even old technology or materials can be presented as the latest thing. If people will pay it, they'll charge it. Remember, in the post that started this thread the OP mentioned that he had a customer that believed that glass had some sort of "special magic" that helped him catch more fish.

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Is it possible to make a 12' graphite pole which duplicates the feel of a 12' cane pole? Not a rod, a pole. Not split bamboo, the whole bamboo cane.

Yes, of course.

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