And a glorious, good day to all.
Have any of you attempted produce a faster action by stiffening the lower portion of a rod by pressing in rigid foam (PVC, Urethane or such as used in the composite industry) through the butt of the blank? Most of my composite sandwich construction utilizes .125-.75in PVC foam core, 3lb/cu ft which would add extremely minimal weight, less than .3oz half way up a .5 diameter blank. The stiffness would be achieved by minimizing the deflection of the round, tubular blank rather than allowing it to “oval” while flexing. While considered rigid, in a .5 diameter the foam by itself would be quite limp but would add considerably to the hoop strength. I’m just attempting to network my composite knowledge and my new fascination with rod building. While realized and understood it best to purchase the proper action blank in the first place, I have vintage FG blank which could benefit from a stiffer butt section but prefer to ask you veterans first to avoid attempting to remove the foam from 3ft down inside the blank.
Thanks for taking the time to respond with comments and/or criticism!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Wouldn't be hard to test it. Deflect it, modify it, deflect it again.

Michael,
I certainly agree. It is attempting to remove 3ft of foam from inside the blank if it does not work which concerns me, hence my post. Removal would be a posterior pain to say the least.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Although a possibility, it would seem to make so much more sense to pick up the correct blank for your needs.

Good luck

to remove foam if need be. take the head off a wood screw and mount it at the end of a small wood dowl.
then slide the dowl into the rod blank until it reaches the foam. that make a few turns with the dowl and pull the foam plug out.

You're going to have problems where the foam insert stops. The blank needs to go oval when it bends. You're creating an area of stress that the blank may not be able to withstand.

Stiffening the blank does not necessarily make it stronger and the foam insert won't make it stronger.

...................

Right on, Roger.

Tom's correct - again.
Fiberglass boat's gel coat always crazes on the outside where bulkheads are installed inside without feathering the attachment. Same with a blank.
You probably will get away with it if you find a thin-walled graphite sleeve to insert and thin out the forward section of the sleeve at least 3-4 " to feather.
Whatever you do - don't epoxy the forward section. The epoxy is guaranteed to form a hard spot. Let it float.
Also - blanks are designed to take the load at a design point near, and in front, of the grip.
You will be extending that stress point further up the blank where the wall may not be robust enough. Result - broken rod. MAny rods are broken by the anglet holding the blank ahead of the grip for leverage with a big fish. Big is a relative term depending on the rod.
Herb

All great replies as anticipated form veterans such as you. Thank you.
As initially stated, I realize purchasing the proper blank would be best but am attempting to alter this vintage Conolon a little bit, if possible. I am attempting to stiffen, not necessarily strengthen. The composite core foam to be utilized is not as rigid as the graphite arbors used in rod building.
Having a good understanding and feel for distributing stresses within structures, I had already planned to “feather” the first 6-10in of the leading end towards the tip by progressively spacing the .25 thick foam discs. Tom has, once again, displayed his own understanding of foam, and I agree the insert should stiffen the blank without strengthening it which is precisely what I am looking for.
Herb, you brought up good points, especially regarding extending stresses further up the blank where it may not be as “robust”. Point very well taken! To be honest, I have never given any thought to grabbing a rod ahead of the foregrip, but will from now on. Also, I certainly agree with you and had no intention of bonding the foam insert(s).
I really like David’s suggestion of a screw tipped dowel to remove the foam discs. Great idea and perfect example of KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid! I am disappointed I did not think of it. At least I have a bit more confidence in the possibility of removing the inserts if the results are not acceptable.
So, basically, Roger and Michael are correct, Tom has given me confidence I could be on the right path, Herb has pointed out issues to avoid, and David has afforded me with a method to disassemble it all it doesn’t work. I only wish I had a similar sacrificial rod to stuff-test.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

You may find the foam breaking down from the rod flexing. There is a previous post about foam breaking down within a reel seat from the rod flexing in the foam.

Phil,
I read and contributed to Jeff Eller’s post on 01/03, which you are referring to, and was surprised to not see you include thoughts. The foam breaking down is a good point and certainly a possibility with the top side of the blank stretching while the bottom compresses and producing a sanding effect on the foam. I suppose the smoother the interior walls of the blank the better. Thanks.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I was not thinking so much of abrasion, as I was of compression which was the case in the reel seat post.

Very good possibility of creating a shear point in the blank

Ron Weber

Phil,
Typically, in composite foam core construction, we avoid stiff, brittle core materials while seeking stiff and/or strong surface laminating cloths such as CF, Aramid or FG to produce a stress resilient structure. I typically use PVC foam core material due to its impact resistance which also equates (quite closely) to crush resistance even though its compatibility with most structural epoxies is a tic less than other substrates. The point being PVC foam might be immensely better suited to “Rod stuffing” than the urethane/graphite foam commonly associated with rod building. Even in my adolescence of rod building, I have employed PVC foam for arbors and even handle underlay, but it may be premature to decide if this is an ultimate substitute. I just used it because I had left-over pieces.
Ron, Thank you also for your valid point of stresses which is understood and hopefully addressed.
It appears that none of you veterans have attempted or experimented with foam-stuffing a blank before. Really, no one has thought of or attempted this before? Actually, I am really surprised and feel like either an idiot or Einstein (no feedback on that issue, please). I cannot believe you veterans would allow a punk newbie the possibility to learn ‘ya somtin’ new. Dang, I really need a suitable, sacrificial blank. I don’t know if I will float or fall, but I’m willing (or too ignorant not) to try.
Please, any last words before possibly plummeting?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, don't be surprised! I believe most custom builders would prefer to purchase the correct blank, rather then spend the time and resources to experiment, in an area where they lack the knowledge you have, and the outcome would have little practical application. All of this for a "one off rod" seems a little over the top!

I think your best bet is to trim the tip to get what you want and extend the blank to bring it back to the desired length.

Aluminum tubing was often used on those older blanks to extend them as they didn't bend much in the butt section. These days you could use carbon tubing.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Phil, Thank you for your assessment and honesty, and I certainly take no offense. You are probably correct and I may consider just accepting and adapting to the blank as-is. That is the (only 1?) problem with being a habitual-over-thinker.
Russell, in addition to your insight and veteran experience, you must also be psychic. The other vintage surf rod acquired from the same gal has a 23in extension of .75 X .060in wall aluminum tubing. I have zero hands-on experience with butt extensions but have read the reel seat should be mounted over where the butt of the blank ends to minimize the possibility of kinking/bending the tubing. The leading end of the reel seat on this rod was originally positioned about 2in below the end of the blank. It may not be of concern as this is not a really stout rod, probably a 20-25lb rating, but what are your thoughts?
Thanks to all for your time, concern, replies, unselfish & invaluable assistance!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Look at it this way Mark.......serious offshore rods have been built on unibutts for decades. The end of the blank is epoxied into a ferrule which fits into a handle assembly with an integral reel seat. Nobody worried about blank failure/shear points because the extreme end of the blank was not intended to flex.

Many bait casters from the past with pistol grips were built in much the same way. In fact a great many types of rods were. Fiberglass is pretty tough stuff given a big enough butt diameter and adequate wall thickness.

I don't think the concerns were ever about blank failure or the tubing failing. Instead I think it was about a "modular" concept......an extension solution that could be made to work with a lot of blanks within a given butt diameter. I have little doubt in the past a given blank could be sold as a bass, to salmon, to surf rod, just be having a different handle lenght and maybe a little trimming. So I'd put the reel seat where I wanted it.....either on the blank or on the tubing.

Today we are more concerned with weight and have more choices so we don't "have" to build that way. Still, it doesn't equate to being a bad choice. Otherwise products like " Stuart tuff butt" wouldn't still be around after all this time.

So reading between the lines and knowing what a lot of vintage fiberglass blanks were like......I'm thinking your blank might seem a little "wimpy/weak sister" in the tip for what you think its "butt" is up to doing. Try stringing your line through all the guides but the tip.....or the tip and first guide down....etc.....and test casting until you have what want. Only then do you cut the blank.

Sometimes that overly soft tip can be a godsend.....keeps you from ripping live baits off during the cast......keeps a fish on the bite a tad longer before he feels the line tension.....so think twice and cut once.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Mark, my comments were not all meant to be offensive.

However, I could not pass up your statements of "Really, no one has thought of or attempted this before?" and "I cannot believe you veterans would allow a punk newbie the possibility to learn 'ya somtin' new."

The concept you ere addressing is not new, I know of "veteran" builders who have tried, foam in place, balsa wood and liquid epoxy to try and accomplish rod performance changes. All rejected!

Reread your post, and you might see the needle at "Veterans" that I felt.

Phil and everyone else reading my last post.
I am embarrassed and self-offended if any of my comments offended any of you. If I did offend anyone, please accept my sincere and humble apologies. All was meant to be humorous and light-hearted, all while poking fun at myself, the “Punk newbie” and “Idiot or Einstein”. After posting and replying on this site for the past six months, I assumed everyone was accustomed to my easy-going, comical style. Besides being a “Habitual-Over-Thinker”, I also habitually attempt to make people laugh. It would be a shame if restricted from doing so within this site.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.