I have a 7 foot 3 weight St Croix blank that is light green in finish which i want to turn into an extra ultra light spinning rod for 2 lb. I will use the lightest possible guides [6] and skeleton cork handle to tape a reel too. The blank is a little on the slow or weak side and i am wondering if i remove the finish if it will make the blank a little faster, at least so it's noticible. I know weight added to a blank slows it down but would this be enough to be noticible? Any thoughts on guides starting with a 12 or 16 and progressing down to 3 light as possible. I have made quite a few rods up to ten years ago and when i look at whats available today I'm overwhelmed. I've searched the site but can't seem to find specific info. Would really appreciate any advice.

It will increase blank speed but unless it's a very thick, heavy finish, not by much. I think you'll be able to tell a difference but it will be very slight. However, each thing you do to decrease weight combines with each other thing to make a noticeable difference. If you shave the finish and keep the components (guides mostly) very light, perhaps finish with a couple coats of PG instead of epoxy and use one guide less than you might normally use, you could find a worthwhile difference. Again we are talking speed, not action, right?

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Removing the finish from a blank will make it lighter, but probably not enough to notice. The lightest spinning guide train I have ever used are the PacBay minima guides. I use a combination of minima match (M) guides for the reduction train, and minima fly (F) guides for runners. For your ultra light rod I would size 16M, 7M, and 5M guides for the reduction train and size 3F guides for runners, and a matching tip top with a size 3 ring. Will probably need at least 4 runners. The weight of an entire set of these guides will weigh less than a single size 20 stripper with a ceramic ring. Use the Fuji KR GPS at Anglers Resource (their web site appears down at the moment) for guide placement. I've included links for the minima guides, if you have not seen them before.
[www.mudhole.com]
[www.mudhole.com]
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2017 11:01PM by Norman Miller.

Excellent comments everyone. Yes I'm talking speed. The tip should speed up because it would be subject to the inertia of the finish more than the butt because the ratio of finish to material in the tip would be quite high I would think. The minima guides look great and I'll just very lightly polish the blank. Thanks again.

Dwight
You seem to know what you want.
I am concerned - no - certain that you will not be happy with the rod after all your work and investment in components if you are counting on finish-removal to make the rod faster.
I would suggest that you invest in a modern design made with modern materials.
Regards,
Herb

Dwight,
Save the time and trouble to remove the finish.

Rather, just strip the rod, and install pac bay minima guides and go fishing. You will find that the rod will likely be just to your liking with a lot less work.

Good luck

All good answers from qualified veteran wrappers. I personally and particularly like Roger’s response.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

If you cut the rod tip back 1/2 inch it would lighten the blank more than removing the finish and also speed the bank up more. I doubt you would miss the half-inch in length, and it would save a lot of unnecessary trouble.

Phil -good point. Rod won't be faster - but it will be more powerful.
I don't know if 1/2" is enough. But shortening until there is a difference will make the rod slower and more powerful
Herb

Herb: Then cut the butt of the blank back. That will make the the blank lighter and faster a LOT quicker.

I am not a big fan of using a fly rod blank for a spin rod. Just too 'sloppy' feeling for me, but that's my opinion. I think the blank you are using is a St Croix III, with a MF action that weighs less than an oz already. A very nice blank, but a MF action fly rod is not the same as a MF spin rod. However when reading past posts here, it seems that a lot of people like this slower more progressive action that a fly rod gives. There is nothing wrong with this, if it is what you want. Using the lightest guides and components possible will make the rod feel more responsive, and perform better. I also do not think it is worth the time and effort to strip a rod just to save a gram in weight on an already very light blank, but that is your choice. If you want a crisper more responsive feel, then use a F or MF ultra light spin blank. I would still use the minima guides no matter what.
Norm

Dwight,
Lots of good suggestions, I might add that wrapping a F minima to the tip instead of tip top.

Hey you guys it's a good thing I'm retired and live in Alberta. I've got a few months to implement all the suggestions. Cut 1 inch off the butt, strip the finish, use the minima regular guides and then 3F guides plus 1 for the tip = 6 guides + the tip. I have 6 and 61/2 ultra lite rods from the original GL3 Loomis blanks so realize what a regular speed and action UL rod is like. I think the blank I have may be a II rather than the III. I bought it several years ago and I think I bought one grade down from the top but can't remember. It's a high quality blank thats actually straight. Also have an original Fenwick HMG UL 6 foot that I built when they first came out. My wife still uses it jigging walleyes. Thanks again.

I've never handled that type of St. Croix rod but the Avid I own has some really THICK clear coating on it. I think if you were to remove it, and like Tom Said, saved on weight elsewhere, you might notice the blank responding a little bit quicker than it otherwise would.

Dwight,
You have a great rod that will work wonderfully well as you have it right now to fish with 2 lb test line. Enjoy the rod and the fish that you catch with it. No need to do anything to the rod.

Good luck

I know this same subject has come up plenty of times but in my opinion cutting the butt or the tip or both will slow the rod down. As HL said cutting the tip will "add power" but slow it down cutting the butt will take power and still slow it down. Blanks without a gloss coat or have a sanded finish are more sensitive than those with a finish. Gloss coats and paint dampen vibration and make the blanks less sensitive. The action of a blank is inherit to the process that made the blank. The mandrel, the pattern of the prepreg, the fibers, resin and pressure applied along with other variables create the action of the blank. I don't think sanding is bad except you may not get the result of what you were going for. Tape or fix the guides you want to use to the blank and see how it cast, it might already be what you want.

I do agree that a trim on the tip is the easiest way to go and lot less risk of damaging the blank fibers the finish is only a few microns and wouldn't make any real noticeable difference.
the action and stiffness of a blank is determined with the density of the cloth used on the mandrel to make the blank it is a dense tight weave cloth or an more open weave kind of like the way they do Egyptian cotton for bedding it is all in the thread count or the weave of the rod blank cloth.

the minima match frames would be my choice 2-#7 1-#8 1-#10 1 or2-#12 and 1 #16 would be a total of 6 or 7 depending on placement for desired action

I my self would get the guides and tape them in place and run a line through them and flex the rod to see how the line lays from guide to guide and then you can open up or close the spread in the guides to get the result your wanting.
FYI I have been building for 54 of my 64 years and had many good mentors over that time.
Good luck with the build.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

The closer to the tip a rod bends the "faster" it is. As I understand it, the more the butt is cut off the closer to the tip the rod bends? It certainly will make the blank lighter - a lot lighter than removing the finish would.

Cutting the blank from either end will make it slower. However there is often some confusion in the terms. I think the OP is looking to increase the speed (reaction and recovery time) of the rod, not necessarily change the action (where it initially flexes).

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Yes...reaction and recovery time = sensitivity and feeling a little crisper if possible. Man, I'd hate to design a rod, so many things but all very interesting.