Building a 7'2" MF rod on an Immortal blank.
Want to use the RV Stripper which is a size 6, no micro guides on this build.....what should the rest of the train be?
I was thinking this...

RV6 - 6 - 6 - 5.5 - 5.5 - 5.5 - 5.5 - 5.5 - 5.5 - 5.5

What do you think?

From looking at the specs, the RV6 is a little taller than an 8 in the LN line of guides, so that will help a little with the line angle concern you had on your last build as it relates to the placement of the butt guide.

I'm not sure you need two 6's following the RV, though. I would think going from the 6 after the RV, right to the 5.5s would cause no problems at all. Hopefully others will share their thoughts.

Just curious? Why 5.5s as runners, and not something smaller? Are you going to be passing a leader to main line connecting knot?

Thanks for the reply Dave...building this for someone else and he doesn't want the micros...I thought a 5 may be too small...just don't have a good feel for the sizes yet.

I think 5.5's following the RV will work fine. This will make a great rod. Give the guy what he wants.

There is no reason to go through all the various guide sizes in an effort to reduce a guide train gradually - that sort of thing is only for the human eye.

............

I agree RV6 followed by 5.5 runners. Will work well.
Norm

Oh I forgot to ask....what about the tip...does it typically match the runner size? Reason I ask is because the model I need to match has a 6 as smallest size.
Thanks!

A size 6 ring will be ok. If you want smaller Kigan Z top comes with a 5.5 ring, American tackle ring lock comes in a 5 ring, ALPS PP tops have a 5 ring, Fuji MN also in a 5 ring, some Fuji F tops with 5.5 ring, and the new Fuji Arowana (KG) top comes in a 5 ring. Seaguide also makes some tips with a 5 ring but not sure where you can buy them.
Norm

I'm just finishing a 7' St Croix. I used a KW10 instead of RV6 but I believe the height is the same. Then KW5.5, KB5.5, KB5.5, KT5.5 to the tip. It handles really well. I am not a fan of micros and don't go smaller than 5 unless someone explicitly asks. A KB or two is recommended in the mid-section because of the larger foot, but as always it's your choice to do what you prefer.

John Shear
Chippewa Falls, WI

That is a good idea John...thanks for the tip

The RV 6 is exactly the same height as the KW 10. The RV 6 was developed as an alternative to a KW 10, however it only comes in a titanium frame and thus is more expensive than a stainless frame KW10. A KW 5.5 would work well following the stripper if you want a double foot guide. The only difference between the KB and KT guides is the size of the foot. The KB has a wider and longer foot than the KT, and is used in the 'belly' of the rod to prevent pullout. The KTs are used in the 'tip' section of the rod since they are slightly lighter. The larger foot is not needed in the tip section because it does not experience the same stresses as the rod's belly section. Since I started using size 4.5 and size 4 KB/KT runners I have come to prefer them over larger sizes. Size 3.5 and size 3 microguides are to small for my liking, although they do work well.
Norm

Thanks for chiming in Norm....I am going with the following.

RV6 - KB6 - KB5.5 - (8) KT 5.5s

[www.guidesnblanks.com]

John Shear
Chippewa Falls, WI

Not trying to disparage anyone here, just sharing something I found when looking at the height comparison chart Angler's Resource supplies for Fuji guides when I was doing research prior to my first post in this thread.

According to that chart, the RV 6 guide is taller than an 8 in the KW and LN series of guides, but shorter than a 10 in the KW and LN series.

I will say that I checked the height of 2 CLNAG 10 guides against that listed in the chart, and found that the guides I have on hand measure .3 and .4 mm taller than the chart lists an LN 10 at. So perhaps the chart is out of date.

Anyhow ..... just thought I'd get the info out there.

My apologies if I upset anyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2016 03:14PM by David Baylor.

The RV6 at the bottom of the ring is the same height as the KW 10 at the bottom of the ring. That is where the line is going to be on a casting rod, not at the top of the guide.
Norm

David, no one upset. I made the same observation that you made and posted it a while back. Jim Ising at Anglers Resource corrected me about the height of the RV6 and KW10. He correctly pointed out that height measurements for guides on top vs guides underneath need to be considered in a differently.
Norm

Noman, your post about the height of the rings being the same at the bottom makes sense, although, and this is just conjecture on my part ... but my thinking is that the RV6 was made so a smaller diameter ring would have the same height at the top of the guide, as a larger ringed but shorter framed guide would have.

While I'd feel safe in saying its (the RV) design took both casting performance, and line clearance when the blank is under a load into consideration, I suspect casting performance was the main factor of its design. And when casting, the line is at the top of the guide ring.

Maybe I put far too much consideration into the effect line angle entering a guide has on casting performance? When I read posts like Tom's post earlier in this thread, and yours and others recommendation of going with an RV6 right to a KB 5.5, I think that I may.

I agree David. Fuji states that this high-frame small-ring reverse design modification "assures that line speeding off the reel is choked only by the ring and makes no contact with frame braces or the blank." They also state for the RV6 that " the higher smaller ring manages casting chatter better than any guide tested." These quotes come from the Anglers Resource catalog so it is part it is advertisement. But I am quite sure that Fuji performance tested these guides extensively before releasing them. For most, but not all, of casting rods I make I use a KW10, a KW5.5, followed by size 4.5 or 4 KB/KT runners. This set up was recommended by Fuji and works great. In my opinion this KR guide concept was a performance enhancer over more traditional casting guide set ups. I did not try the RV6 until just recently because it was more expensive due to the titanium frame. My KR setups using a RV6 also worked extremely well but I really had a hard time determining if it was much better than using a KW10. I should also mention that I have had no problems substituting a KB5.5 for the KW5.5, they are nearly the same overall height, just depends whether or not you want a double foot or single foot guide in this position.

Norman, I've been using a # 10 LN series guide for the butt guide on all of the casting rods I've built, save one. And even on the one I didn't use an LN guide on, I still used a #10 Am Tak ring lock for the butt guide, simply for the height it offers. I may be mistaken, but didn't the RV used to be available with a SS frame?

Perhaps not.

Anyhow ... I pretty much know I won't be giving an RV a try unless they offer it in a SS frame. Not because of the cost of the titanium frame, but because with my OCD, I couldn't stand not having the frame color match myother guides. lol When I first started building I used to talk big about using titanium framed guides on at least one of my builds. But dang they cost a lot. lol

I think I'm going to try something when I'm setting up the guide train on this build I'll be doing soon. I'm going to go ahead and set it up with a LN 10 as the butt guide as I have been doing, and go immediately to a 6 LN (I don't have any KB's or KW's on hand) I'm interested to see if going to that much shorter of a guide pulls the line down from the top of the #10 butt guides ring.

Love the conversation because I'm learning. And one can never stop learning.

The RV6 guide never came in a SS frame as far as I know, and like you I resisted using them because of the price of using all titanium guides. However, the bright SS frame is a close match to the titanium frame allowing you to use the RV6 in conjunction with other KR guides with a SS frame. I think that Fuji may discontinue titanium guides with an alconite ring, making this option much less cost effective. The whole KR concept has only been around in the US from 2012 or 2013, so not very long. Almost as soon as the K and KR guides came out I tried them. The K series guides came first, and were used exactly the same way as the more traditional guides that were already available. The difference being they where designed to be tangle free due to the sloped ring and frame that shed line loops. Shortly thereafter the guides used for the KR microguide concept showed up and directly competed with the microwave spinning guide system and other microguide setups that were being developed at the time. This spinning KR concept was based on high-frame small-ring stripper and reduction guides to rapidly choke line to small running guides. I tried them all and found the KR concept to be a real performance enhancer. I also adapted the KR concept using non K guides from Fuji and other manufacturers, and for casting set ups this was easy to do. It was more difficult to do for the KR spinning concept because there were not a lot of high-frame small-ring guides around except for the PacBay Match guides. These worked extremely well and the Minima M and F guides had the added advantage of being extremely light. Both Seaguide and Kigan now sell their versions of the 'Fuji KR-like guides' Although I had not tried them I am sure they will work just fine. I have yet to find a retailer that sells all of the appropriate "KR-like" guides from Seaguide. So to make a long story short yes you can use different models and brands of guides to design KR-like guide trains for both casting and spinning. Fuji was the only manufacturer that told you how to use thier guides, and for this they certainly deserve some credit.
Norm