Drag setting are usually set at about 20 - 25% of the breaking strength of the line used. As mentioned above the maximum drag setting for a 2500 reel is 20 lbs which is more than sufficient to land many types of large hard fighting fish in short order without killing them. As you know, you can also increase drag by fingering the spool. The point that Jim Spooner is trying to get across is that smaller than usual spinning reels loaded with braid pair nicely with spin rods built using micro guides. Such combinations are lighter and more responsive making them a joy to fish. In addition, the use of such combinations usually are accompanied with increased overall performance, with very few down sides. I have using braid for a long time and over the past few years I have become a big fan of the KR microguide concept. These are some of the things that make a custom rod custom. Different people have different likes and dislikes, but this does not make things right or wrong, just different.
Norm

A quick online search for "maximum drag 2500 spin reels" indicated size 2500 spin reels from popular brands averaged about 5.3 pounds of "dynamic drag." This seems about right. The maximum usable drag varies with the area of the drag surface. A Penn Spinfisher 7500 reel which holds 430 yards of 40-pound-test braid claims to exert 25 pounds "maximum" drag pressure. There seems to be a huge problem with either the definition of drag or its measurement. I would never sacrifice the skin on my index finger to slowing down a a truly big, strong fish.

Phil, here are the specs on the Stradic reels from Shimano. The 2500 CI4+ is shown to have a maximum drag of 20 lbs. you can ask shimano about their measurements. All I know is that it has sufficient drag and line capacity to land redfish up to 30 lbs (largest I have caught so far) and release them alive. Believe what you wish, I would never put a 7500 reel on a bass rod or light inshore rod. That thing is huge and weighs 25.5 oz four X heavier than the 2500 I fish, it not something that would be fun to fish with. However, it drag rating is similar to the stradic I use. Not trying to get in a spitting match with you, just giving my opinion and experiences using these rod, reel and line combinations.
[fish.shimano.com]
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2016 05:50PM by Norman Miller.

LOL...love a good spitting match.....as long as I'm not within spitting distance of it:)

Sure, all reels have been forced to get better because of braid. Nobody would have dreamed of boating a 1,000# bluefin on spinning gear in the past. And yup, those drag ratings should be viewed as "maximum pound test that reel can fish" IMHO. For spinning reels I tend to set drag at 25% of actual breaking strength.

I find I can do "double duty" with a quality reel. I typically look to have around 200-250 yards of mono on one spool and around the same amount of braid on the other spool. That leaves me fishing near the bottom of the rods rating with mono and near the top with braid. Again, given a quality rod it works out okay for me. I do the sorta fishing that requires line capacity and I don't want to re-line a reel if a fish manages to break me off.

Something like a st. croix 3sw70mf will fish 8# mono and 17# braid okay. Typically the 8# mono has higher actual breaking strength and I pick a braid/leader/knot combo that is where I want it. A 4000 sized reel might be about right for such an outfit. I don't consider it a compromise rig and view it as a way to reduce clutter on the boat.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

I would not use my 2500 Stradic reel on my 12' surf rods or on any rod with which I intend to cast more than 1 1/2 oz. of weight or troll a plug more than 6" long. I do use my 2500 Stradic filled with 20# braid on a 9 foot steelhead-action rod to cast small spoons and plugs off the beach for slot-length reds, small bluefish, and small jack crevalles. I have been spooled.

I would not use my 2500 Stradic reel on my 12' surf rods or on any rod with which I intend to cast more than 1 1/2 oz. of weight or troll a plug more than 6" long. I do use my 2500 Stradic filled with 20# braid on a 9 foot steelhead-action rod to cast small spoons and plugs off the beach for slot-length reds, small bluefish, and small jack crevalles. I have been spooled.

I have no problems with matching rod and reel combinations to the fish one is targeting and the methods used. I also would not use a 2500 reel on a surf rod, but certainly like it for casting 1/4 - 3/4 oz lures in shallow water for specked trout and reds, in addition to bass. I think the whole point of this thread is that with the modern rod blanks, guide trains and building components coupled with the use of braided line allows one to use reels that are smaller and lighter then those previously used with older more conventional builds using mono. This is also true with bait casting outfits. This is irregardless of the species of fish you are targeting. Lighter rod and reel combinations are more fun to fish, with the added benefit of enhanced performance. I like to use the lightest (in weight not power) combination that will get the job done. I hope this Point comes across with no ambiguities.
Norm

Certainly not disputing any of the numbers given by reel manufacturers for how much line their reels bring in with each handle revolution, or what the maximum drag figures are for their reels.

I'll simply say that the amount of line their reels bring in per handle revolution are based on a completely full spool. Meaning, too the edge of the spool lip. Nobody I know ever fills their reels that full. Also, those figures are based on the reel being spooled with the lightest pound test they are rated for. At least that's how Shimano comes up with their numbers. Of course I'm basing that on what I was told by a Shimano factory rep.

Anyhow ..... fill the spool to a fish-able amount, say 1/16" below where the lip starts to taper, and use a larger diameter line than what the reels lightest line rating is, and those inches retrieved per handle revolution change, and can change drastically. Make a cast and decrease the diameter of the spool and depending on a couple variables, it's possible to see close to 50% decreases in the amount of line retrieved.

As far as high drag numbers are concerned, I don't know for sure, (never asked the Shimano rep that question) but my guess is those high drag numbers are not taken with a full spool. Yes, spinning reels usually have higher drag ratings than casting reels, but that's because of the line path spinning reels have. That 90 degree turn adds significant resistance. Decrease the diameter of the spool and those drag numbers increase, and can increase pretty substantially.

And finally, I personally don't see high gear ratio spinning reels catching on like high gear ratio casting reels have. If some manufacturers do end up making them I doubt they'll sell many. They'd just be too hard to retrieve a bait with. There's a reason most "high speed" spinning reels have gear ratios in the mid 6:1 range.

As Jim mentioned earlier, Look at the diameter of a bass casting reel spool, it is usually smaller than most spinning reels and it's diameter also diminishes when line goes out. So this is one of the reasons that high speed casting reels are popular. I have both spinning and casting outfits in my boat and use them interchangeably depending on the type of lures I am using. I have always felt that spinning reels pick up line faster than casting reels, even the high speed ones. I cast right hand and crank left handed with both casting and spinning, so no hand changing. Changing hands is awkward for me. With both casting and spinning I prefer a light and responsive outfit, and use braid almost exclusively with both.
Norm

Norman, I definitely agree with your last post. I was merely trying to say that line retrieved per handle revolution numbers given by reel manufacturers can be misleading. Trying to calculate the number of handle revolutions it would require to reel in a 100' cast is not as simple as dividing the advertised line retrieval numbers into 100' (converted to inches of course) Halve the diameter of the spool, and you halve the amount of line retrieved. .

You're absolutely right about spinning reels retrieving line faster. Thank God for their larger diameter spools. Could you imagine how difficult it would be to use a spinning reel with the gear ratio of a high speed casting reel?

I think the laws of physics predict that the drag a reel generates increases a whole lot as the effective diameter of the reel spool decreases - as more line is out. This effect is compounded by the reel spool being narrower or smaller. In my mind there is considerable doubt about the methodology advertisers use to declare the maximum drag their reel generates. Furthermore, I would not dare to suspend a 20 pound weight from the tip of a rod matched to a Shimano 2500 C14+. I would be much more confident using a Penn International 30 to catch large mouth bass.

I know a bunch of fisherman that do not know what a drag is! They tighten it down all the way with heavy line so they can pull a fish out of cover without the fish knowing what the heck happened! For these guys losing a fish is losing money! So they may like using a Penn International, but I doubt it. I do not fish that way, all I know is that the rods, reels and line I use work extremely well for the fish I target and the way I fish. Different strokes for different folks!
Norm

Great conversation and debate going here! I am like you Norm and use my left hand for retrieving even with baitcasting reels.I have more control of the rod with my dominate right hand.One guy at an OBX tackle shop must of thought I was a little crazy to have a LH baicaster when I took it there to get it filled with line. He said that was the first LH that he has seen there.

Which reel sizes would you all recommend for 8-18lb and 10- 20lb inshore rods?

I agree David, casting right and reeling left just seems more natural to me. Could never understand why left hand retrieve casting reels aren't more popular. What kind of reel are asking about spinning or casting, and what species of fish are you targeting?
Norm

Red drum in the OBX sounds from a kayak. Typically slot or slightly smaller is the usual catch but there is always the chance of a big bull. Right now I am using an older model Tica Libra 2500 on a rod rated to 15lb line. At what line,lure or conditions do you prefer a bait caster over spinning?

As you may have noticed I like the Stadic 2500 for light inshore fish and it has handled the occasional larger fish (reds, jacks and small sharks) with no problems. I usually use 15 - 20 lb braid,but some times 10 lb, with a fluorocarbon leader attached via an FG knot. This outfit casts 1/4 oz jigs with a grub, unweighted soft plastics and various other light lures very well. I recently bought a Stadic 3000 and it is exactly the same size and weight of the 2500 but has a greater line capacity. I will probably switch over to this for the light inshore stuff because of the increased line capacity. I also have several MH - H salmon rods that I use from the beach and when I need extra long casts. On these I use a 4000, but may also try the 3000. When I'm throwing larger lures like Zara spooks, top dawgs, various types of plugs and spoons I move over to a casting outfit. Again I use Shimano 200 reels, but but have used a 300 when I need extra line capacity. These are also filled with braid (15 - 30 lb).
Norm

You can cover a lot of ground with a 2500 to 4000 (shimano) sized reel. I find one shouldn't pay any attention to the rated pound test of the braid. You have to measure it (or find someone you trust who has).

It has actually gotten to the point where modern spinning reels bigger than the 4000 size are harder to find. Of course one brands 4000 doesn't equal anothers (I have a 4000 Bradia that will hold 300 meters of PE3 and is in a different class than a shimano 4000).

Count me as another righty that owns left hand bait casters. That time to switch hands can let that lure fall too deep into the water column and get me hung up!

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Off topic of the original post so please forgive me, but I'm a hand switcher. lol Right handed, and use right hand retrieve casting reels. My dad is right handed, and switched over to using left hand retrieve reels years ago. I've tried using his reels and just can't do it. While I'm certain I could learn to use my left hand to turn the handle (I retrieve left handed when using spinning gear) I can't adjust to the position my hand is in when setting the hook.

I personally don't have a problem with a bait falling too deep in the water while switching hands, but I can understand those that may. For me personally I think the biggest disadvantage of switching hands in when pitching or flipping where the line needs to be controlled the entire length of the cast. A fish can hit as the bait is falling during the hand switch. And that can cost you fish.

My way of overcoming that problem is, when flipping and pitching I hold the rod in my left hand. It was easier for me to learn to flip and pitch left handed, than it was for me to get used to awkward for me, hand position during a hook set. Or even while retrieving a bait for that matter.

Most right handed fisherman do switch hands. Maybe it comes from what you fish when you are a kid. My first fishing rod was a spin rod so I casted right and retrieved left. When I got my first casting outfit (Lew'sBB1speed spool) it felt awkward to switch hands and crank right no matter how much I used it, so I fished it less and less. When Shimano introduced the left hand retrieve Bantam I found it great to use. Many other right handed fisherman started with something like zebco 33 which only cranks right handed, and this became 'normal' to them, and cranking left felt strange. Just a thought on this. There is no right or wrong. It boils down to what is most comfortable to use and what works for you.
Norm

I have often fished an inlet to the sea for bull reds where a 5 knot tide is normal. I have seen more than one $100+ series 4500 reel trashed by a 45" redfish headed for the sea. The screwed-down drag held up, but the rest of the reel did not.