I'm trying to build a KR rod with the smallest runners that will pass a bobber stop knot. Didn't want to go full bobber-spec on the runners though, because I intend to use this rod for casting jigs as well.
I was thinking about KT#5.5 then suddenly this idea came up in my mind. KT running guides are sloped and therefore their rings are vertically shorter than upright rings of the same size. Simple geometry. In theory, I can achieve larger(or taller, depending how you call it) ring diameter with the non-sloped L guides of the same size.
The question is.... Does it really matter? And what do you think is the minimum size for runners on a slip-bobber rod?

What line and bobber stop are you using, and what for? The bobber stop slip knot and the line I use for steelhead will pass through a 4 mm guide any style.

10-15lb braid with the slip knot. Probably Thill's.
Does your knot ever get caught at the guides? I just want to be safe because I night fish a lot.

Does using a bobber decrease a rod's sensitivity as much as using guides 1 mm larger?

K-series guides feature a double slope. The frame leans forward to allow line to slide forward and off the top of the guide but if you'll look closely you'll notice that the ring is LESS sloped than the frame. Reducing that angle just a bit makes manufacturing more difficult but Fuji did not want to reduce the vertical height of the sloped ring so much that it would affect performance. It's very unique to K-Series guides and a patented feature many don't even realize is there. If you look at other "tangle free" guides you'll notice immediately that they simply lean forward, closing down the vertical height. Fuji went the extra mile to achieve the tangle free goal without risking the additional problems that may be associated with a radically leaning ring.

No a larger guide would be fine for bobber fishing, in the Pacific Northwest, while steelhead fishing, the same rod would be used for a mutiple techniques from drift fishing, spinner fishing, boondogging, or bobber fishing all in the same day. Like all rods, lighter is better, smaller, or less as long as it does the job is best. Therefore I advised how far I had gone with no problems.

Jim, thx for assuring me.



Phill, a bobber doesn't decrease the rod's sensitivity; it's just that you don't need to care about sensitivity too much when it comes to bobber fishing since the bobber lets you know when to strike.



Spencer, I'd like to know how freely the slip knot passes through your runners because 4mm sounds like it's pretty much the smallest you can get away with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2016 12:30PM by Frank Gyan.

When you mic the diameter of a knot you will realize very quickly that it will pass through almost any micro guide. About 99% of my fishing is done with a 4 to 5 ft fluorocarbon leader (15-20LB) tied to 15 - 20 LB braid. Nowadays it's an FG knot but I have used the Double Uni, No Name and Albright in the past. I have casted all of these knots through 4, 4.5, 5, 5,5 and size 6 runners and guess what, they all pass through the guide just fine and THEY ALL MAKE NOISE. Drives me crazy but there's no way around it.

Here's the real consideration: The smaller the guide, the smaller the foot and IF the knot catches while casting it COULD pull the foot from under the thread. This is less likely to happen with a larger guide sporting a larger foot. The force required to pull it will go up a little since there is more surface area on the foot. I can still happen, however.

Preventive steps you can take:
1) ALWAYS use a locking wrap on runners
2) Use a larger guide (more weight, less control...not for me)
3) Consider using KB guides all the way to the top - giant, strong foot with very little weight added. Takes huge pull to pop it loose. Looks great. (Negative is foot diameter can exceed blank diameter on fine tip or hi mod blanks)

4) Use an FG knot. After you've tied about 50 of them you'll get good at it and begin to develop some confidence in it. It will fail if tied poorly. It will not fail if tied properly.
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Frank: I disagree. The more mass and resistance you add to your line the less sensitivity your rod is able to transmit.

Some of my steelhead rods are 30 years old, the smallest guide I could get back then was 4 mm. I've gone down to 3 mm and still passed the knot, your material and knot only needs to be big enough not to pass through your small bead before the float, but you only get a 3 mm guide in single foot fly style.

Jim, the tip on KB guides is great. I will try going KB all the way except for the very tip of the blank.
By the way I always use the FG when I tie a leader to my PE running line and thing's a beauty, definitely my favorite among all knots. But my concern is bobber stop knots since unlike leader knots, they are bulky by nature and I'm not too sure about these small guides' knot clearance.


Spencer, that is some extreme measure you took there and I believe that was your Maginot line. I just read a post on another forum and the dude said he was having troubles throwing a bobber with 4.5mm guides so I'd better collect as many anecdotes as possible and take the safest way.

Jim,
Your are precisely correct on all accounts except the larger guide size. My old eyes and fumbling fingers are hard-pressed to wrap minuscule micro guides!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I feel your pain Mark. I'm still good for a 5.5 and a 3-piece chicken box.

When a lot of the light/small diameter line presentations were developed over the years for salmon and steelhead you seen a lot of G Loomis STR1141s being used for all of them. They had match guides on them, you'll hear people say you can't fish the small guides in freezing weather and yet those rods were being fished by anglers and guides everyday of the year. When I was stationed in Michigan I saw a lot of them being used to fish microjigs and maggots under a float for steelhead with a foot of snow on the ground. I bet some of the guys that have used microguides on bass rods in cold weather have has icing problems, all guides will do it sooner or later, I bet they also noticed that they de-ice faster than a large guide so it's a wash considering the difference in weight and performance. The rod is not the first thing, it's the result after you've got the who, what, when, when and how figured out.
I live in the Pacific Northwest, rarely am I on the water in cold enough weather to effect my guides, when I do have that weather I also have high winds that keep me off the water more likely than not.
What the people are generally saying is I chose a line and bobber stop material and knot that weren't optimum and got poor results, it's the rod's fault. You don't have to use a slip bobber stop, old school you just pegged your float at the depth of the hole and fished it long, no knot no problem. When we started fishing in closer quarters like from a boat, brushy bank, or steep non existant bank this is when the slip bobber knot started being used. You can still fish an awfully lot of water with a 9 - 13 ft. rod and a pegged float.