Hello Everyone,

I realize I might be asking a lot of questions, but I am sincerely trying to learn and understand what other, established rod builders do so I can better help my son without him having to devote too much time to finding stuff out and hurt his study time. I also want to try and develop his skills without having to over spend on items.

So, earlier I asked about Guide "sets" for different types of builds, and grew to understand that they will invariably change. But what about the Stripper guides specifically? If you are building a casting rod do you tend to stay with the same size stripper guide for a given build? Or even for a casting build of the same type? Anglers resource has an article that says if you do a NGC casting build to always start with the KW10 or if you build a KR concept to start with the RV6. Maybe you want to use another company's guides, but do you largely stay with the same size stripper guide?

Anglers Resource also has specific reduction trains for spinning set ups. Do you find yourself using the similar "ratio" of reduction guides for a particular build (i.e. if you use a 25 stripper guide is the reduction chain always the same for a 25 stripper? (They do have different 3 and 4 guide trains for longer rods), but generally speaking, are the sizes for a reduction train the same for each different size stripper guide you choose?

Thanks!

Stripper guide choice will not affect the casting accuracy of any fishing rod. Stripper guide choice will have an insignificant influence upon the distance a revolving spool casting will cast. That leaves durability, appearance, and cost as legitimate concerns for the rod builder.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

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Gib, you're going to have to do a certain amount of reading to get into this and many of your questions are addressed in the library section. You may as well read them there and save someone the trouble of retyping the info. You have to read it either way. I will say in regard to casting rod butt guides, as long as the ring is at least as large or larger than the line guide on the reel, ring size is of less importance than guide height. If you pick a guide that is very close in height to KW-10 or an RV-6 you'll be in good shape. Anglers Resource provides a guide height chart. Also request catalogs from other component manufacturers such as Batson and Pacific Bay and others, as they provide similar info on their products. Get a cheap blank and reelseat, put a foam rear grip on it and nothing else. You can wrap it and test it, rewrap it and retest with other guide styles and spacing any number of times. One coat of CP will be enough to hold thread in place (if needed) and allow it to be easily stripped and rewrapped. In my opinion, from a hobby builder stand point, spinning rod reduction trains are way over discussed sometimes as you may discover thru a certain amount of testing and your first attempt may cast better than factory rods you are familiar with. ( not to mention weight reduction) Long ago there was no info to be had, now it sometimes seems there is almost too much. Of course that's not really true, but it can be quite overwhelming to people starting out. You and your son would benefit greatly from a couple of classes to get off and running. It's a very rewarding craft and many a fishing trip has been salvaged by a guy who knew a little about rodbuilding!

Gib, what kind of guide train do you want to use (NGC or KR; casting or spinning)? Generally speaking, for a casting rod a KW 10 or equivalent in another brand will work just fine for for both NGC and KR on almost all bass casting rods. The RV 6 only comes with a titanium frame making it more expensive, and if I am not mistaken I think Fuji has discontinued the RV6 with alconite ring making it much more expensive. You could also use a size 12 or a size 8 stripper, this is your personal preference. For a NGC bass casting rod the reduction guide is usually a size larger than the running guides which are usually a size 6. For a KR bass casting rod the reduction guide is a 5.5 KW, and the runners are KB/KT in the size you want (5.5, 5, 4.5, or 4)
For a bass NGC spin rod the stripper is usually a size 25 Y or 30 Y guide, depending on reel size. The reduction guides are size 16Y, 10Y, and 8LY. Runners are usually size 7 or 6 LG guides. For a bass KR spin rod use either 16 KLH, 8 KLH, and 5.5 KLM, or 20 KLH, 10KLH, and 5.5 KLM, as stripper and reduction guides. The runners will be KB/KT guides in the size of your choice (5.5, 5, 4.5, or 4). Although I have not used them, both Kigan and Seaguide make guides similar to the Fuji KR guides in both looks and height. As I mentioned previously Match guides can also be used as a KR substitute. Hope this helps
Norm

Gib,
I simply go with the build style where I select a striper guide size - such that the line really never touches the guide- either on the cast or retreive.

For a final check, I like to pull out about 100 feet of line, and then - while holding light pressure on the line, reel in the line.

In particular, I pay careful attention to the line as it goes through the stripper guide during retrieve.

I want to see a guide setup, such that the line never touches, or just barely touches some part of the stripper guide during the light tension retrieve.

If I find that the line is constantly rubbing the top of the stripper guide during a light tension retrieve, I will replace the guide with a taller guide or a larger guide.

Good luck

The stripper guides help control the line as it leaves the reel , some call it taming. The first stripper guide needs to be small enough to control the loops or waves in the line during casting but not so small that the line slaps the face of the guide or ring causing it (the line) to slow down. The second stripper is a reduction guide that "tames" the line even more or reduces the wave significantly. The third guide should be the transition guide for the running guides. Some believe that this should be the same size as the running guides (rapid reduction). In previous years this was thought to be just part of the transition as the guides begin to get smaller toward the tip. I build rods using only three to four different sized guides and not the older method of reduction (6 or 7 different sizes). This is what I do: for a size 50 or 100 bait caster I use a high frame 6mm guide, high frame 5mm, a 4.5mm or 4mm transition guide and 4mm running guides. The spacing should follow the line from the reel to a given choke point on the rod. For a spinning reel size 1000 to 3000 I use a 20mm high frame guide, 12mm or 10mm high frame, a high frame 7mm to 5.5mm transition or choke guide and 5mm or 4mm running guides. For a larger diameter spool you may need to use a 25mm as the first stripper. The rod is built for the reel to be used on it. That is why the difference in sizes so that the stripper reduction train can be spaced evenly according to the line from the reel to a predetermined choke point on the rod. The guides need to be centered and spaced with the line.

I had most of the same questions you are asking. I have spent countless hours reading the historical post on this and several other sites. That information is important and gives you many different persectives on how to build a rod. I feel that none of these perspectives are "right or wrong". The best thing I did was to purchase low cost components and build the rod using the ideas I read about and putting my own twist on things. I would then fish with the rod to find what I liked and disliked. Later on I then donated the test rods to high school bass teams. I learned a lot, built my confidence, and made some young fishermen very happy. To me this is a hobby and it is about building custom rods. If your son primarily enjoys the assembly process and minor custom aspect of choosing wrap and grip colors, then I would recommend copying guide layouts from commercial rods that you like.

I have only built about 50 rods but not one of them has been the same. There isnt a formula only theory on how to assemble a "perfect" rod.

Glad you are enjoying the hobby and I think after a few more builds things will become more clear. Expirence is a great teacher.

You mean baitcasting rods, right? As far as I know, Fuji's newest KR-concept reduction train for freshwater baitcaster is KW#10, KW#5.5, and runners of the same size all the way til the tip. Of course there is the latest RV#6 stripper made out of titanium but I don't think it's worth the price at the moment. For the runners size, Fuji recommends #4 to #5.5 depending on your line's lb test.
Some large baitcasting reels like the Abu Garcia Ambassador have a spool-syncronized levelwinder that oscillate sideways when you cast and their height is significantly taller than low-profile reels, so in that case sizing up your guides isn't a bad idea.

Good info. Thanks!

Gib, I think you got some great answers to your question.

I think maybe you didn't ask the "right" question.

Might I suggest you search in the archives for M&M Volumes 1-7. I'd be paying particular attention to Bill, Steve, and Alex (there are others of course).

Strange that in none of the posts you have made that a casting layout such as 5, 4, 3.5, and six 3's hasn't been mentioned.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

What are the M&M Volumes 1-7 ?

Once you find a blank and a build style that suits you and a client if there is one; you will likely settle on building other identical rods - if it is for the same purpose.

I have built for many years and have built many many rods that have been identical. When something has been developed that works exactly - for the application - no need to change anything.

For some older builds, I have taken them back and rebuilt them identically with some of the newer design guides for happy clients.

What ever is needed, can be built as required.

Be safe

Gib, the M&M volumes are a group of posts started by Bill Stevens and dicuss how micro guides came to be. There is a lot of good reading concerning the matter and for awhile it was hotly contested (on both sides). Today micro guides are established. What might be of the most value to you is to get to know some of the names involved. Lots of people on the internet have things to say. Best to listen to true leaders and innovators. Then you can search for their personal posts, often with sage advice on how to build the best bass rod.

Use the search feature here. Put in "micro maniacs" and be sure to click on "all dates". IIRC the first posts started about 8 years ago.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Russ, thanks for the micro maniacs search suggestion. Just spent the entire evening reading these posts. Very interesting and informative.
Norm

Glad you enjoyed it Doc. Not everyone is interested in history it seems.

I tend to listen to the few that made it.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Russ, I like history lessons, it has been fun seeing how things have evolved over the past 45 yrs sine I started. I did not mention the micro builds down to size 3 runners because Gib specifically asked about Fuji NGC and KR systems. I have used the small micro setups but prefer the KR setup, personnel preference.
Norm

Gib,
Yes, you do ask a lot of questions. I did also and still do because there are genuine veteran gentlemen here willing to help. All of the above is great advise you should take special notice of Lynn’s post, especially purchasing a cheap blank, seat and guides and wrapping it all together without thread epoxy (the CP idea is super and I’ll give you mine as I basically won’t use it anymore). Test cast, fish it or whatever and rewrap the guides in a different configuration. You smart cookie, Lynn! I dove into the deep end on my first build and spent over $200 on a Phenix blank, $140 on Fuji titanium guides, plus all the rest. In retrospect, the rod would probably not have turned out so awesome without the assistance from many of the previous replying posters above. Live and learn, apply and prosper!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.