Hello All,
Question - when is a guide (what size?) considered a "Micro" guide?
Also, do any of you use them on Redfish/Snook spinning rods/blanks ?

Jon Hood



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2016 02:38PM by Jon Hood.

A micro guide is considered a micro guide whenever you feel like it.

I suppose that the typical guides in former years went down to size 6.

So, by inference, guides that are smaller than size 6 could be considered micro guides.

As Mr. Kirkman has said many times in the past - use the right sized guide for the particular application. Many reasons to use larger guides at a given spot, in the same way that there are many reasons to use a smaller guide at a particular spot.

Good luck

For many builders any guide smaller than a size 6 is considered a micro guide. It does not seem that long ago that the smallest guide people would use was a size 6 and they did not really come into vogue until the new guide concept became popular. That has really changed over the past few years, where a size 6 runner now seem gigantic. For your second question, yes many use micro guide set ups for inshore spinning rods. They really work very well, I personally like the Fuji KR concept setups using size 4.5/4 runners. To me these setups are performance enhancers, giving the rods a very light and responsive feel.
Norm

There is no reason micros will not work on redfish/snook rods, although I would choose the heavy duty ones with the larger foot. Fuji and Amtak offer them, maybe others.. Since redfish/snook fishing is unlikely to encounter icing, the most important consideration will be knot passage if you will be using line to line knots. I don't think one of the advantages of micros, sensitivity, is a factor with redfish/snook, so I would not go way down on size. Then I wouldn't have to worry as much about which knot to use. A good size, IMO, would be 5-5/2 minimum.

Micro use has become so faddish that people are using them in all kinds of applications where it just doesn't make sense. Do some study on what the advantages and disadvantages of the guides you are considering are, then make the decision.

For salt, corrosion resistance is a big issue.

Sensitivity is in fact very important for inshore fishing, not all fish slam the lure and take off. In fact many bites are very subtle, especially when using jigs and soft plastics. So for me I use braided line in combination KR concept guides. This is a very sensitive and high performance set up. I always use an FG knot for connecting a leader. This is not only the thinnest line connection knot available it is also the strongest. It never hurts to enhance performance when you can, no matter what species of fish you are targeting.
Norm

what are your thought on using the microwave guides for reduction train and then micro guides in the running train? And would there be any different procedures for layout or testing?

Jon Hood

The microwave guide set up employs size 5 runners, which work quite well. They are considered to be micros by many. There is no reason why you could not use smalller running guides if you want to. However, the microwave guides are only sold as a set and you will not be using the 7 running guides that come with the set, so you will be wasting some money. The other option is to use the Fuji KR guides, with the running guide size of your choice. I have made rods using both the microwave and KR guide systems, and both cast and perform very well. I prefer the KR concept because of it versatility and performance. How small a running guide do you want to use? I personally do not like runners smaller than a size 4, and most of the time use size 4.5 which is not that much smaller than a size 5. I think you can reach a point of diminishing return when it comes to very small micro guides.
Norm

I am building the rod to match a 3000 series Penn - I was wanting to try the microwave system simply because I haven't used it yet.
I was thinking about using the microwave as reduction and switch over to Fuji #5 's for the running, but what would be the point of switching over.

Jon Hood

Norman,
do you use the layout for the reduction train and running guides and then adjust as needed (deflection test) or pretty stay with their layout recommendations?

Jon Hood

Switching over would be a waste of money, stay with the microwave guides. The only way you can determine if you like something is to try it. With a 3000 series reel the microwave system will work quite well. For your next build try the Fuji KR guides. This will give you something to compare. When I see something new I want to try it to see how it compares to what I'm currently using. Drives my wife crazy!
Norm

sounds like a plan I will try ! I drive my wife crazy with the same thing!
Did you see the above post about the layout? Just curious about your experience with their layout measurements?
Have you built using the Microwave 30 system?

Jon Hood

Guess we were posting at the same time, so missed the post above. Yes I set the stripper and reduction guides as suggested in the microwave instructions, then static test to place the runners. After this I take to my dock and test cast it. I can not help myself, but I always tweak guide placements to try to enhance casting distance. But most of the time the initial placement works the best. Some times with a larger reel you can enhace performance by moving the stripper and reduction guide slightly forward. This gives you a straighter line from the reel to the stripper. Hope this helps.
Norm

and the Microwave 30 system? I assume its basically a for heavy line any larger reels with the #10 and #8 ring sizes correct?

Jon Hood

Yes the microwave 30/10 system is designed for longer and heavier rods with larger reels. The stripper and transition guides are double foot, and the runners are size 10, so they are designed for heavy duty use with heavy line. I made one rod using these guides they worked fine but I was not overly impressed with them, I also made one rod using the single foot Castaway 30/8 microwave-like system which comes with a size 7 Fuji high frame transition guide. These were not sold as a complete set so you could use runners of your choice. This system gave you a little more versatility concerning runner size. However, the Castaway microwave-like guide is much harder to find. For what you want to do using a 3000 series reel with braid the standard microwave guide set should work just fine.
Norm

Thanks for your input Norm!

Jon Hood

Jon,
I have been building rods for less than one year and have learned to count on the three responders above, Roger, Michael and Norman to give me guidance. They are wrapping veterans with a wealth of knowledge and always willing to share. I particularly like Norman’s suggestions, especially concerning Fuji KR Concept guides and the FG knot, both of which I employ 98% of the time.
But I have come to dislike these micro guides as their tiny size is a posterior-pain to handle and see with my old-fossil eyes.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark,
Read and understood on the difficulty in using Micro guides. Lets face it, there is no reason - other than a touch less weight to use the micro guides on a rod.

Many folks, especially those with a bit less than perfect vision really dislike using the micro guides on a fishing rod, because it is more difficult to run the lines through the guides - especially on cold and windy days.

In the case of casting rods - with the guides on top of the rod, you can also use fewer guides if they are a bit taller and larger and still keep the line off of the blank when casting and retrieving.

Good luck

I am 71 and had cataract surgery and corneal transplants in both eyes. I can still wrap the Microwave, Fuji KB/KT and Minima F micro guides with no problems. I think these guides are really performance enhancers and they give the rod a noticible lighter and more responsive feel. I used to think that a size 6 guide was small, but now days they appear gigantic. It is all a matter of what you like, and this is what makes a custom rod custom. If you have problems stringing a rod try the Fuji speed threader, it really works well for micros down to size 4.

[www.therodroom.com]

Norm

As usual, if not expected and accepted, Roger and Norman are correct. But personally still like building fresh water rods with #6 runners and #8 for and for salt, even though a FG knot would probably pass through a #3! The FG is really a miracle knot. But the customer is always right and if they want #4s, then so be it.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Jon,
Some good information from Norm for you. I'll add only one thing. You can surly mix and match on the microwave guides. And as you asked the Microwave 30 is for larger rods, this summer I had a request for a 9 1/2 ft St Croix salmon blank that my customer wanted the Microwave 30 in titanium on it. Due to the fact that on this blank the tip section gets rather small I down sized the last five guides to number 5 runners used in the regular microwave set to keep them a match, so to speak. It turned out very well and my customer was pleased. He told me that he used 30 lb. mono and the number 5 guide handled it with no problem.

Tom